TOPIC: Nauticus Smart Tabs

Finishing the first pot of coffee, getting ready to work on the house some to try and stay off the water this weekend. (Holiday = increased chance of accidents due to numerous amateurs and too much alcohol!).

The Amita 3 I put on the Starflite had me worried. First two outings resulted in the prop nut being loose! (Cotter pin still in place but tension gone off the nut.) Went out again yesterday, everything seems fine now. Just wondered if you experienced anything like that with yours. Have you checked the prop nut since you put it on?

Coffee, Im just getting ready for bed. Coffee, sheesh, lol. It's 2:42 am here in Ca. Mike

Have a nice weekend guys and gals...
Great thread Frank...............................

MarkS wrote:

Finishing the first pot of coffee, getting ready to work on the house some to try and stay off the water this weekend. (Holiday = increased chance of accidents due to numerous amateurs and too much alcohol!).

The Amita 3 I put on the Starflite had me worried. First two outings resulted in the prop nut being loose! (Cotter pin still in place but tension gone off the nut.) Went out again yesterday, everything seems fine now. Just wondered if you experienced anything like that with yours. Have you checked the prop nut since you put it on?

Nope, no problems with my prop nut Mark. No cotter pins here either, just the old locking tab washer under da nut.

I got some work to do on the boat anyways. Besides getting ready for the new tach, I need to finish that rear bench seat, do a bit of sanding of glass/resin on the interior of the boat near the shoebox seams, clean it up good and put another coat or two of paint in the interior.

I hope you have a great weekend working around the house Mark. I'm gonna do that some, but will get the boat in the water sometime over the weekend again. Maybe take a ride up into the Adirondacks, launch in a lake. We'll see.

Frank

Frank, I found a pic of the "vented" props where you can see the vent holes in the last pic.
forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=1444.msg15654;topicseen#new
(At least I THINK that's what we're lookin' at)

V153- can you take a side pic of that Lightspeed prop to show Frank what vent holes look like? Frank- Don't need to buy a new prop. Vents can be added to any prop using a drill. Proper size and location are very important, you can't just drill too big, or prop will become a blender- spin fast, but go nowhere. Get all other tinkering done, holeshot should be last issue when all else is running and working as it should. BTW, just a random thought, but when you hooked the motor controls up, did you look at the carb butterflies to verify fully open? Got bitten by that one once, drove me nuts until a mechanic asked about it and found a linkage wasn't properly adjusted. Just asking.

Kerry, I went back and posted a pic of that Stiletto, is that the vent holes you're talking about? (That one's for sale = $250 and it fits a Merc, I believe.)

Kerry wrote:

V153- can you take a side pic of that Lightspeed prop to show Frank what vent holes look like? Frank- Don't need to buy a new prop. Vents can be added to any prop using a drill. Proper size and location are very important, you can't just drill too big, or prop will become a blender- spin fast, but go nowhere. Get all other tinkering done, holeshot should be last issue when all else is running and working as it should. BTW, just a random thought, but when you hooked the motor controls up, did you look at the carb butterflies to verify fully open? Got bitten by that one once, drove me nuts until a mechanic asked about it and found a linkage wasn't properly adjusted. Just asking.

Yes Kerry, butterflies are wide open at WOT.

Frank

frank, if my 2 50lb. sand bags don't work, i may buy the tabs too. i've never had a problem getting up on plane. i'm at top speed in 4 seconds...30mph at 5,000 rpm, on rough water. were you running 38mph at silver when i was following you?

Well, you'll get on plane quicker with these tabs Ron. I honestly don't remember what sort of speed we were doing at Silver. It was a crazy day, just getting the boat on the water, wiring the new trim switch in, etc. Forget. Seems I do that a lot more now.

Frank

MarkS wrote:

Frank, I found a pic of the "vented" props where you can see the vent holes in the last pic.
forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=1444.msg15654;topicseen#new
(At least I THINK that's what we're lookin' at)

Yes. The vent holes are the small holes just behind the top edge of the blades.

Hi all,
Frank, I would recommend you try Dave's 20" pitch Laser II prop. They are very hard to beat (and are vented), and based on the set-up you have described, the 20" pitch may be close. I suspect that the Solas likely has a fairly high percentage of slip (but less than the unmodified 2-blades). The speed and tachometer readings do not add up though, so like Mark, hopefully the new tachometer will be helpful.
Generally, a performance hull (which is running efficently) can lose 5 MPH on top end due to the use of trim tab (smart or otherwise). You are not going fast enough at this point for this to likely come into play though.
Ron, I am curious, that limited the raising of your motor on the transom (besides it's cut-down height)? I seem to remember something about bolting the motor at a raised (back to the original stock height).
Happy 4th to all!

Regards,
Joe Poole, Jr.
www.fergusonpoolemarine.com

Here's a pic of the vents in my Lightspeed. I've seen round vents square vents large & small. Some manufacturers supply rubber plugs to "un" ventilate the prop as well.

The theory behind ventilated props: When you come off idle exhaust is forced through the holes. Effectively aerating, 'cavitating' if you will, the prop. Thus allowing the revs to wind up quicker. Once you plane out & reach a certain speed the effect is negated & all exhaust exits through the hub.

I see no reason why someone shouldn't attempt drilling their own vents. That's all they are anyway, just holes in the hub. You can always plug em up? Mine are centered 1 1/8" behind the edge of the blade & 7/8 in from the front of the hub.

I feel your pain about pulling the trigger for the right prop. I monkeyed around for months trying to find a good match. Still looking for that "perfect" prop btw. Heh heh.

There are a myriad of props out there these days. But for good holeshot, awesome midrange acceleration, and respectable top end I highly recommend a Lightspeed. Plus ya can pull a killer wheelie ...?

Good ex-plane-ation Doug, thanks!

ferguson, i was unable to find someone to do the work. it is something i wouldn't attempt on my own. the motor transom bolts are un-accesible to me due to the long splashwell. another factor is if it cavitates now it would only get worse if i raised the motor. if i'm able to stop the porpoising i'll be happy with the speed in the mid 30's. the mercury mantaray boathouse bulletin shows the top speed with a 50hp at 33.9. i've been told mine should do 40 with the 700 but thats not important to me, my wife and i just want a smooth ride.

Excellent explanation, Doug. Myself, and others, have vented props for some years now, generally found: 1/8" holes to 19" pitch, 3/16" for 20-23", 1/4 for 25+" to be effective. One older fella didn't like it, so epoxy filled the holes. BTW, ever consider one of those Torque Shift props sold by Land & Sea some years back? I remember an article in Powerboat Magazine with an 18' Hydrostream tunnel and 150hp Yamaha V-6 that had one set up for 26" max and 9" (!) minimum that would prop walk when they punched it!!!!

Kerry wrote:

Excellent explanation, Doug. Myself, and others, have vented props for some years now, generally found: 1/8" holes to 19" pitch, 3/16" for 20-23", 1/4 for 25+" to be effective. One older fella didn't like it, so epoxy filled the holes. BTW, ever consider one of those Torque Shift props sold by Land & Sea some years back? I remember an article in Powerboat Magazine with an 18' Hydrostream tunnel and 150hp Yamaha V-6 that had one set up for 26" max and 9" (!) minimum that would prop walk when they punched it!!!!

I might try this with the 3 blade bronze 21P i have...like you said, worse case, it sucks...i can just epoxy the holes closed.

Ill probably start with some 1/8" holes and see how it responds and maybe open them up slightly more if it does well.

Out of curiosity, since you seem to be well versed in this...what RPM should i be shooting for from a dead stop when going to WOT? My 1350 seems to have a flat spot around 23-2500ish RPM that it really struggles to overcome till the boats fully on plane...then it MOVES!

Two strokes by nature have a somewhat narrow powerband where they make max torque. Since your 135 was top hp for its year, it is a great top-end motor. I would think about 3000 for the start of the "meat" of your powerband. 1/8" holes should do fine, larger may start the blender effect. 3/16 max. And add more cup to that prop to help it bite with the vents. Lots of cup may also help lift the bow with less up trim, adding speed (bonus!!)

BTW, Jer- Where does your cavitation plate line up in relation to the keel?

Kerry wrote:

BTW, Jer- Where does your cavitation plate line up in relation to the keel?

About 2 inches above the keel...water pressure gauge is installed to monitor it.

Ron,
The Laser II (Mercury)/Lightspeed (Quicksilver) propeller "'71 V153" shows will be virtually 100 percent able to prevent ventilation (when on plane) if you raised your motor up. I can also supply an aluminum propeller with very high probability of success also. I'm not sure the Smart Trim Tabs will fit your hull shape anyhow.
Jer,
If you are two inches up, I would think that the old bronze 3-blade could be bested noticeably also by a modern prop. My father had to add a lot of cup to the available props in those days to achieve the set-up he wanted on customer's new boats. Like many things, technology has progressed with propellers such that out of the box propellers today are available to surpass most of the custom-made racing propellers of the past.

Regards,
Joe Poole, Jr.
www.fergusonpoolemarine.com

The two best props I had with my inlines were the Ballistic and the Laser II, in that order. The latter had vent holes such as the Lightspeed mentioned earlier.

Speaking of vent holes, here a document you might be interested in. This happens to be a vintage Mercury publication.

Ferguson_Poole wrote:

Jer,
If you are two inches up, I would think that the old bronze 3-blade could be bested noticeably also by a modern prop. My father had to add a lot of cup to the available props in those days to achieve the set-up he wanted on customer's new boats. Like many things, technology has progressed with propellers such that out of the box propellers today are available to surpass most of the custom-made racing propellers of the past.

There in lies the problem...all the people i boat with just have the "old" style props...and i sure as heck dont have the cash to be dropping on a couple, few 250+ dollar props just to try them! Id REALLY like to find someone with a 22ish pitch cleaver to try. Someday..

Glastron, thanks for posting that!! Im gonna try it on that bronze prop.

Jer, you and me are in the same boat, er, figuratively anyways. Right now I'd have a hard time buying an aluminum prop!

By the way, I see with these Smart Tabs, the only thin that changes between models is the gas actuators. I may buy a set of the next series up (60) just for the heck of it. Soon as I get the $!

I got to build a seat for the back today, got company.

Frank

At this point im close, at least as close as i can be with a "stock" setup...but its all just fine tuning that setup now. That boat always puts a smile on my or any passengers faces...but getting that last, extra little bit out of it is always fun trying to accomplish.

If i could get a little bit better holeshot and a little bit better top end, id be tickled!

The vent holes WILL help with holeshot. Try 1/8 first, if happy, great. If not, add 1/16 at a time until grin happens. Having a prop shop beat more cup into your prop is cheaper than a new prop and will help lots! Especially with that transom height. Any venting and/or surfacing that introduces air to the prop (controlled cavitation) needs lots of cup to "grip" the mix. Picture the props above, and modify yours to come as close as possible, within limits of the bronze. With the vents and more cup, invest in extra toothpaste to get those stubborn bugs off your teeth.

Happy 4th to all,
Ron, I would think about the use of a larger (wider and thicker) aluminum transom plate with a turned upside down "J" shape to strengthen and cover-up the glassing-in of the missing transom section. A metal fabricator could custom bend it, you could then polish it or paint/powdercoat it. I really don't think that it would be very hard, just some time to make it look "stock" and pretty.
Jer, Kerry's advice is very well taken, but I am somewhat concerned that your 5200 RPMs should ideally be a little higher with the Merc 1350 if it were mine. The additional cupping though needed, will likely reduce the RPMs still more. I also agree with Kerry that a cleaver is very likely the wrong direction. As Ron shows with the vintage Mercury Boat House Bulletin, Mercury and other brands of motors and boats do a lot of prop testing, and most brands of propellers do not offer a cleaver prop. I have never found a boat (that we sold) where they are a good choice. Certainly there are some applications, but they are quite rare with outboard boat rigs.
Frank, I could have sold you the Solas at the price you paid, but I think that you money investment would have been better applied to a different aluminum propeller to save money and better optimize the set-up.
Glastron_GT160 experience is certainly good to have, but drilling the vent holes in stainless is often very difficult, so I do not prefer the Ballastic. I also believe that the Laser II/Lightspeed will be better on some boats, as has been stated even between different Glastron models on ClassicGlastron.com.

Regards,
Joe Poole, Jr.
www.fergusonpoolemarine.com

By the way, I see with these Smart Tabs, the only thin that changes between models is the gas actuators. I may buy a set of the next series up (60) just for the heck of it. Soon as I get the $!

Frank as Joe Poole posted earlier the tabs of any type will scrub off speed,Ill take that 1 step further, I run Bennet trim tabs on some of my boats, I can tell you this, just touching the tabs, scrubs of speed and increases fuel consumption at any speed over planning speed, my GPS doesnt lie

if you choose to buy stronger actuators you may find that you cant even trim out the boat,the tabs will be pushing the nose down too much

Frank I suggest you get chummy with the local prop shop,I had a similar issue on a boat, I told them of my problems & said I have no problem buying a $500 prop but not if I dont see any improvment over my used $50 prop,if you leave them a credit card I found some will give you loaners to find the prop you need, they make a sale, get a new customer you dont throw away money on a prop that doesnt work
if they dont want to work with you find another prop shop

Well said, Joe. I agree Jer's RPMs are a little low, just trying to optimize what he has to work with now, recommend a 4" setback bracket purchase when he stops wasting money on gasoline. (yeah, right) P.S. only found cleavers to work well on true, uninterrupted tunnels that pack massive air at speed- not usually found on recreational boats, but a few were made.

that'll be the day when i spend $500 on a prop. the few mph you might gain is not worth it imo. now if it cuts fuel consumption by say 35%, then i might change my mind. it would be just my luck first time out to hit somethin. ugh......

that'll be the day when i spend $500 on a prop

I hear ya, with performance & race boats it seems like a thousand at a time to make gains ....I was divorced over this

MadProps wrote:

By the way, I see with these Smart Tabs, the only thin that changes between models is the gas actuators. I may buy a set of the next series up (60) just for the heck of it. Soon as I get the $!

Frank as Joe Poole posted earlier the tabs of any type will scrub off speed,Ill take that 1 step further, I run Bennet trim tabs on some of my boats, I can tell you this, just touching the tabs, scrubs of speed and increases fuel consumption at any speed over planning speed, my GPS doesnt lie

if you choose to buy stronger actuators you may find that you cant even trim out the boat,the tabs will be pushing the nose down too much

Frank I suggest you get chummy with the local prop shop,I had a similar issue on a boat, I told them of my problems & said I have no problem buying a $500 prop but not if I dont see any improvment over my used $50 prop,if you leave them a credit card I found some will give you loaners to find the prop you need, they make a sale, get a new customer you dont throw away money on a prop that doesnt work
if they dont want to work with you find another prop shop

Michael, I ain't gonna see any speed till I stop bouncin up and down. I got lots experience with boats with trim on them, including Bennetts, and this one does not work worth a hoot. Something is screwy, and I'm just gonna keep trying to figure it out. My goal is not top end or mileage, it's to stop bouncing up and down!

We just got in off the Hudson, and while the tabs make it better, I got ones too light, so I will be stepping up soon. Once I stop bouncing, we'll see what I can get for trimmed out speed. By the way, We were out today about 1 hour or maybe an hour & 15 minutes on 6 gallons of gas or less. Gee, I need to go check. I thought for sure I'd need two tanks today.

Frank

Frank, staying with the low $ theme, can you replace the spring rams with turnbuckles you can adjust while on the water?

I doubt it Kerry. New gas actuators are only 32 bucks each. I'm good for now, but soon as I get some spare cash, I'll get series 60 actuators.

Frank

frank, do you feel 6 gallons to run around 90 minutes is good? is that wot? well i got the 2 50lb'ers on the front seat. can't see how i'm going to get them up front while lying on my back with my legs up over the top of the seat. man they're heavy.

Ron, someone once told me to figure 6 gallons in 40 minutes at WOT with my specific motor. So while I wasn't WOT all the time today, I still feel good I was out that long, and still have a gallon of gas or so in the tank.

Frank

Probably based on the old rule of thumb- one gallon of gas per hour for every ten horsepower.

oops- at full throttle.

Frank,

From what I have seen of Nauticus over the years on other forums they are VERY helpful. If you selected the wrong size (even if perhaps you did not order from them) and they are brand new. Send Nauticus an email and see if they will swap the larger actuators for you. I think you may find they WILL do that. Good public relations go a long way. I don't have any tabs now, but I might in the near future. I have heard nothing but positive about them.

Good luck, and I hope you keep posting your progress.

If you get in a serious need for speed after you quit bouncing, let me know and I will loan you my Ballistic for testing purposes. I think its a 20" prop and will bolt right up with the modified trim tab. It was the best prop that I tried on my specific hull (including the laser which was not graphed), but may not be on yours.

Chris wrote:

If you get in a serious need for speed after you quit bouncing, let me know and I will loan you my Ballistic for testing purposes.

Quite the generous offer, my friend. Still gotta see where Frank's RPM are with the 19P when the new tach comes in though.

Frank, Chris (Glastron_GT160) also may be onto something with contacting Nauticus, many of the good companies are genuinely interested in providing good customer service to ensure their existing customers pass along Favorable reviews to their fellow boaters. (I have found this to be true, personally!) It wouldn't hurt a thing to drop them an email and explain the situation, give them the link to this thread, and see what they say. Never know for sure until you try....

Just wondering, did you try moving the struts (actuators) in the adjustment holes? (Maybe that just adjusts the angle they start out at?)