TOPIC: 1959 Lake N' Sea Restoration

Andrew,

For what it is worth, I redid the floor of a 68' Starcraft Trihull.
My stringers and frames were completely rotted. I cut the fiberglass covering the framework to get out what little remained of the wood. After much thought, and dreading making the grid under the floor, I walked on the cut stringers. They held my weight. I finally decided to not replace them at all. I simply went over the entire grid with a second layer of woven roving. No wood, just air!
I then glued (poly resin) and screwed the floor to the new two layer stringers.


I realize you don't have the framework I had, but it is worth some thought.

MarkS wrote:

Does the cooler temps have the same effect on epoxy like it does poly resin?

Yes, it does. I switched over to the 'fast' hardener, which is more appropriate in cooler temps. The manufacturer says it's OK to work all the way down to 55-60 degrees- But the cure time gets VERY long the cooler it gets. I try to keep everything above 65 if at all possible- Which meant moving the transom inside for the night (in the Formal dining room- Since I don't use it for much else ), since I don't heat the garage when I don't have to.

John- The rotten spots are pretty minimal so far... II think I'll be able to repair them without much trouble. The stringers in this boat are a full 2" wide, and I was having a hell of a time finding decent lumber for them!

Steve- That depends a bit on the type of stringers... Many manufacturers used some pretty bad wood, You'd be amazed at what can be found sealed away under the floor. My Glasspar had wood in it that probably wouldn't pass muster at a pallet manufacturer- And it wasn't installed all that well. My guess is the foreman wasn't watching that day.

I used laminated plywood to replace the stringers in my Glasspar. There are a lot of options, but you generally want a high quality wood, with few knots, etc. Rot resistance is also a plus. Mahogany, good fir (the REAL stuff, not the 'spruce fir' that box stores try to pass off!), WHITE oak (NOT RED!), cypress... Lots of options. Often, stringer designs rely more on the fiberglass over the top of the wood than the wood.

Treated wood CAN be used- But you have to be a bit careful. First, It usually has a HIGH moisture content. Also, some of the treatments used make resins not want to stick to them. After some experimentation, I used some treated lumber for some of the cross members on the stringers in my Glasspar... But it was sitting on the racks in my garage for a year or so, and was VERY dry... It was also 'Yellawood' brand, which seems to be a drier wood in the first place compared to other types of treated wood... I also experimented with epoxy, making sure that it stuck well to it, and it seemed to. If it's all sealed off, though, using treated lumber is probably overkill.

Jim- If I had to replace the stringers, the plan was to use foam 'forms', and then fiberglass over that. It would be kind of similar to what you did, in that the foam really didn't provide any structure, just something to shape the 'glass. That way, no rot worries down the line!

-Andrew

The transom is in... I did the final trimming, then coated the back & sides well with epoxy... Then, I mixed up a nice BIG batch of epoxy with filler, and glued it in place. It's all curing now.

The original transom had a 1/2" or so gap all around the top edge, up in the louvered areas, which was filled with polyester resin. I chipped and ground all that out when I was getting the transom ready, and when I put the new one in, I refilled this whole area with thickened epoxy 'shot' in there with a ziplock bag used like a pastry bag.

Tomorrow, I'll put a good layer of Biaxial cloth over it, tab it in to the hull, and call it done!

I'll get some photos then, too- Camera was being charged- And, I don't like to take photos when I've got that much epoxy on my hands anyway

-Andrew

The wood is in, and the clamps off-



Then, I trimmed the top of the new transom down to it's original level (based on the existing fiberglass on the transom)-



And, Glassed it all in-



I used 1708 Biaxial across the transom- But didn't extend it up in to the fin/louver areas... They aren't structural, and I used a lighter cloth there that conformed to the odd curves better.

This new transom is MUCH stronger than the original one ever was- And sealed off much better... I'm sure it's ready for another 50 or more years!

-Andrew

Looks good Andrew, and strong too! I think they're calling for two or three more days of nice weather, gonna tackle the stringers this week?

.A.: SWEET,, CONGRATS looking great . .Where did that Big Black MERC come from .??

Mark- I'm going to cut the 'glass off them, and then give them a month or so to dry out to be sure... I'll be going back to 'sea' in a week or two, so they'll be able to sit for a while to make sure that they are actually dry

I hope to get the floor done in the G-3 this week, though... But I've also got to try to figure out a way to get my truck cab picked up in Monroe, GA... My orignal plans fell through and I'm kind of scrambling to get it done before I take off again!

Larry- That's the '61 tower, the lower unit has a coat of black paint on it for some reason... The rest is WHITE like it's supposed to be!

-Andrew

Check your inbox Andrew, you have mail.

I did some work on the stringers today, starting to remove the fiberglass from them-



Things are MUCH better than I had expected- The stringers are, for the most part, VERY solid. There is only a tiny bit of rot, only where a screw or nail penetrated the fiberglass. I'll be able to fix most of it by drilling it out, and epoxying in a wood plug. They are also a lot drier that I had expected- There is almost NO moisture in them. I was expecting the worst, and have been pleasantly surprised!

I don't know how I got by before owning that oscillating tool... It makes quick and clean work of cutting the fiberglass right at the bottom of the stringer. It goes right through. I own two of them now- If you don't have one, go get one! I just had a coupon that made them $18.00- And I also just saw that they were going to be part of the after thanksgiving sale for $17.99.

This will make the whole project a LOT easier...

-Andrew

Wow, you are a busy bee, puts the rest of us to shame. Great looking work and we all can appreciate the effort that you put in. Thanks for the pics
Cal

Andrew,
Dude don't you ever rest? LOL Great progress on this one too. Your right about the multi tools, I don't know where I'd be without mine.

BOb

That tool is the greatest thing made. Fein makes a very similar tool and it goes for about $300. The $20 price tag at Harbor Freight is well worth the money. I used mine to seperate the deck from the hull on my Redfish and it worked like a champ!!! It ate right through the glue that bound them together while running smoothly in the gap. I used the half-moon blade to make the cut and the longer 1.5 inch blade to make some plunge cuts back at the stern. Like Andrew said, they're on sale right now. There is a hard case that HF sells that will hold it all for about $10, if I remember correctly.

The glass is off the stringers now-



There were a couple of spots farther aft that I'm going to need to replace, indicated by the arrows. Th e one on the right has a few bad spots in it, so I'll probably replace the after 2/3 or so of the stringer, rather than mess with multiple patches. Elsewhere, I'll drill out the rot from around the screw/nail holes, and plug them.

I also found some GREAT wood- 2" timbers from an old building that was torn down. It is 110 year old southern yellow pine, excellent stuff. Most people don't associate pine with boats- but this old yellow pine is certainly not the 'pine' that you find in lumberyards these days- It is STRONG, rot resistant stuff.

-Andrew

man your really going to town,with these 2 boats.
speaking of tough lumber,before i got into the old boats i tore down a very old house made of american chestnut,i built a cabin with it,i had to get spikes to nail through it,even 16 penny bent right over.john

I did some pressure washing inside the hull today after I glassed the floor in the G-3.

The bilge area was FILTHY, and there was some old 'zolatone' on the hull as well... My pressure washer has a tip that makes pretty quick work of it-

This is how it looked before-


And, after-


Brings it right down to bare glass in most places.

After her bath, I wheeled her inside to dry. It's MUCH cleaner now- and most of the paint is off the inside of the hull now.



For those interested, this is how I move the boat in and out-



It allows me to easily move the hull around, without help... I can move it out of the workshop to work on it outside, and then wheel it back in for the night. Comes in really handy!

-Andrew

Adnrew,
Great set up, you can get a good price on those dolleys at Harbor Freigh, as you probably already know.

Bob

All the 'bad' wood is out of the boat now-



There were sections here and there that needed to be removed. I cut them out, at an angle, so I can use a scarf joint to replace the bad areas. I also drilled out the areas around where nails were used to hold the old fiberglass deck in place... There wasn't much rot there, but I used a 3/8" drill bit to clear the areas out, and I'll epoxy wood plugs in place. I suppose that you could fill the holes with thickened epoxy, but the wood will give something more firm for the fasteners I use on the new floor to hold.

One of the stringers came out completely-



It has a few rotten spots on it, too- Like the rest of them. I'll fix it outside the boat, then epoxy it back in place.

There is still a little dampness in a few places in the stringers- So they will be given ample time to dry before I do anything further on them. I will be heading back out on a ship in about a week or so, So she'll sit there in the shop drying while I'm gone. The shop is climate controlled, and has a dehumidifier, so it should be good and dry when I get back.

If not, I've always got tons of other projects to do while I wait

-Andrew

Great progress, now you'll make us wait while you enjoy the water.
Have a safe voyage.

It was rainy and cold today, and I was a little limited in time, so I decided to work on a 'side project'... My old windshield is cracked and crazed beyond repar... There is a big crack right in the middle of it, and the aluminum frame is bent up badly, and has a lot of holes drilled in it from a Bimini top that used to be on the boat. It needs to be replaced, so I am going to have to make one-



The tape is holding it all together where it's broken, so I can get measurements and dimensions from it...



I traced the profile of the top and bottom of the windshield. The top will be used to bend a new aluminum piece.

I also laid it down and traced a pattern to cut the new plexiglass from.

Then, I bent the aluminum channel for the top of the windshield. I had to anneal it so it was soft, then bent the curves into it using a form that I cut from MDF. I filled the area between the 'u' channel with strips of cardboard to keep it from collapsing as I formed it. It turned out pretty decent.

Then, I cut a template for the plexiglass out of thick matt board to check the fit-



Looks like it'll be a pretty good fit. I'll probably use Lexan rather than acrylic, for some added strength.

It'll be a LONG time before I need a windshield... But it was a good thing to tinker with in my spare time today....

-Andrew

The pursuit of the elusive perfect windshield is a quest most honorable. LOL (best of luck)

I did some wood work today... I ALMOST miss wooden boats

I ripped the stringer material down to size, then cut it to fit the various places that I'm replacing it-



It still needs some fine tuning before I install it, but that won't get done for at least a few more weeks.

This is some great wood to work with, too... Though it's heavy and demands a SHARP blade. Smells great, too!


-Andrew

wow! looking real good
when you hangin out your sign (boat restore & repair)

or would that take all the fun out of it?

woosterken

Thanks, Ken... Yeah, Doing it for a living would certainly take a lot of the 'charm' out of it...

I was playing with deck a bit today. The Gel-Coat is in VERY bad shape- So bad that I think most, if not all, of it will have to come off to ensure a good base for the primer & paint... I played with a few different removal methods, but found that a stripping/finishing pad on a grinder was PERFECT. I'm using a Gator brand, from Lowes. The Medium grit seems to be perfect- It takes the relatively soft Gel-Coat right off, but doesn't seem to do much at all to the fiberglass below-



This is a REALLY dusty process! I take the whole operation outside- I wouldn't even THINK of doing this in the shop!

-Andrew

Andrew, I feel your pain. Dust masks and outdoors are the order of the day. I used my Porter Cable palm sander with 80 grit. Dust stuck to everything in sight, even covered the plants and flowers, I caught the bad side of ma's smile on that.

Where do you get the energy. I want to see how your windshield comes out. Make sure you take a bunch of pics of the process.

Andrew,
Great progress, have you decided what color your painting her?

Bob

Yeah, The dust part is no fun!! The stripping pads that i'm using turn the old gelcoat into a really fine powder, too. I've got a really nice respirator- It's a leftover from when we changed styles on the tanker that I work on, and it's FAR better than a dust mask for this kind of work.

The windshield project appears to be going well- I've got the aluminum extrusion formed well, now that I've made a 'proper' form for it...



I've got the forming of the aluminum down pretty well now. I also found a local source for the lexan, so that will be the next step...

Bob- She's going to be CORAL PINK. One of the original factory colors... And, I think it screams 50's, just like the design of this boat

-Andrew

Yep totally agree, that color is definitely 50"s and will look great o there!

Bob

Back to some grinding again today... I LOVE grinding glass.

I've got the bilge and stringers all ready for some glass work now... This photo is from when I was about 1/2 done-



I've still got some final fitting to do on the replacement stringers, and then they'll go back in.

I burned out a grinder doing this- And the Shop Vac is on it's last legs... Fiberglass dust is tough on tools!

The boat has been sitting in my air conditioned and dehumidified workshop for a couple weeks, so any excess moisture that was in the stringers is gone. Since I've had a change in my work schedule and will be home for at least a few more weeks, I am going to try to get the stringers and floor back in this week, so I can get the hull flipped and start on the bottom!

In the mean time, I've been sanding the gelcoat off the cap... It's terribly dusty, but almost done. I've taken it almost all down to bare fiberglass, since the old gelcoat was so bad. Before I fair and prime the cap, I'll flip it over and do a few repairs, as well as fill some of the old screw holes from hardware, as well as paint the underside of the cap. It's a LOT easier to do that now!

-Andrew

The replacement stringer parts are all cut and fit- Sorry about the bad pics, I am using my Iphone, My Mac is in the shop so I can't use my 'real' camera-





Next, I'll 'glue' them in place with thickened epoxy, then fiberglass them in.

When I was in there, I did some grinding on one of the repair areas- The boat appears to have a 'trailer bite' or two- And they went right through! Unfortunately, the area where the damage occurred is visible inside the boat, so I have to be a little careful about how I do it so it looks ok... Shouldn't be too hard to blend it it.



The hull is relatively thin- Three layers of glass- an outer layer of cloth, a middle layer of either CSM or sprayed chop, and an inner layer of cloth. Knowing this comes in handy when you're grinding on the hull- Since you can watch the layers and not grind all the way through!

I ground off the inner layer of cloth, and about 1/2 of the middle layer of chop. I'll build up a few layers inside, then when the hull is flipped, I'll be able to get the outside smooth and fair. Although the inside is visible, I'm a bit more worried about how the outside looks-Since it will be far more visible, especially to the 'casual' observer.

You're making this look too easy, take a break, have a few beers along the way.

I got some fiberglass work done today, on the underside of the cap. I filled in some of the old hardware mounting holes, and a few miscellaneous holes that were drilled in the deck and seats for one reason or another over the years. There were also a few areas around the lip that cracked when the cap was coming off, and those have been repaired and reinforced from behind-





The lip at the transom is supposed to look like this-



But that was broken off... So I built a 'mold' that taped underneath the repair area, and built up new glass-



Once it has cured, I'll grind it to the proper shape, and you'll never even know it was there.

I have a few more repairs to do on the underside of the cap, then I'll paint it... Then I'll flip it back over, and finish the Gel-Coat removal.

-Andrew

Andrew, she's coming along great. this an excellent thread!

Bob

Very nice progress Andrew.

As for the stringers, I'd like to make a suggestion - if you haven't bonded the patches to the stringers yet, consider treating all of the wood with Smith's clear penetreating epoxy. It is also known a CPES. My Reinell Jetflite has a similar stringer system as your leak N' sink - but being on the Pacific Coast, Reinell used old growth Redwood for the stringers. They were not rotted at all, just a bit black in areas where the original glass was poorly bonded - allowing water to get to them. If you don't know, Redwood rots very slowly - like 400 years. I agonized about what to do with them. I wanted to copy them with hollow glass stringers, but that would have been a horrible job, and not really necessary. I was mostly concerned about them getting wet again. I bought some CPES and mixed up a batch and tried it on the end grain of the redwood. The wood drank up the stuff like a sponge. I drizzled the CPES down all of the holes from screws that were used to attach the flooring to the stringer tops. My plan is to saturate all of the stringer lumber with CPES, then re-glass them - much you are doing. The CPES should prevent water intrusion into the lumber, if any gets into contact with them. Even though the wood appears dry, there is likely moisture in areas of the lumber that you can't see. The CPES uses alcohol in the epoxy mixture, and this enables the epoxy resin to actually displace the moisture in the wood, and apparently, the moisture actually chemically bonds to the product & becomes part of the resin. Then when that's done, proceed as per your plan. Just a thought - if you haven't already covered the stringers up with glass.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Bruce...

I was the same way... I considered doing all fiberglass stringers, but that is a lot more work, and the material that is there is in great shape still- Like yours, discolored, but strong.

There was some worry about moisture still being deep inside the old stringers- But after letting them dry, I cut into the middle of one of the ones that I was replacing- Not only was it dry, but there was no sign of water ever soaking that far in. They've since had another few weeks in a dry environment, so I am pretty confident that they are dry to the core.

The new sections are not attached to the hull yet- But I've already saturated them with epoxy- and when glassed in to the hull, I will take great pains to make sure that the epoxy saturates everything, and it is all well sealed off from water intrusion. I REALLY don't want to have to do this job again!

The epoxy I am using soaks into the wood pretty well, I'm confident that there won't be any intrusion problems in the future...

Redwood would be a great stringer material- This Southern Pine is probably just about as rot resistant- Especially when it's as old and well 'cured' as this stuff is. I can tell you it is as hard as a nail! Just ask my table saw blade

-Andrew

The stringers have been installed, as well as the wood backing for the bow eye-





All the wood is installed in the hull now- I've just got to 'glass it all in, then put the floor back. Hopefully, that'll happen next week, once I get my cloth.

Once that's done- all the structural and repair work is pretty much wrapped up. From then on, it's filling, fairing, and sanding to prepare for paint!

-Andrew

Excellent, your making great progress Andrew! She's going to be very sturdy and better than factory by the time your done.

Bob

A long morning of fiberglass work today- I told the secretary to hold all my calls, cranked the radio up, and got to work!!

I've got the stringers glassed in now-



Those were some THIRSTY stringers, too- I let the epoxy soak in to them, then glassed everything over. In the end, with all the overlapping tabbing, the entire hull has an extra layer of fiberglass, too. This old girl is going to be a LOT stronger than when it left the factory.

Once all this cures, It'll be time to get the floor back in.

Looking good Andrew. Best of luck with it!

Frank

Wow, she's going to be solid as a rock!

Bob