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Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas?
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TOPIC: Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas?

Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11497

So the timing is good, correct? Butterflies are fully open...

Have the fuel pump diaphragms been replaced recently? Have the carbs been gone through(clogged high speed jet(s) maybe?)?

Lets start with the simplest thing...have you done a compression check in all 6 holes and is the readings even?

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11499

Well Jer, all I can tell ya is I think the timing is set correct. It was done by Tim Calmes who has the special tools and experience. He sure looked like he knew what he was doing! :)

I need to check the butterflies again, make sure they're open at WOT.

The carbs were gone through and rebuilt (along with the fuel pumps, LU seals, etc) a few years ago, and then the motor was just run off muffs. In between, I swapped power heads after Dave Cummings helped me i.d. a bad rod and helped me get another decent powerhead together. I did a compression check on it a while back and it seems they were all around 90-95. I had records, but my hard drive toasted. Couldn't hurt to do it again.

I replaced a side port gasket (those three narrow plates right behind the fuel pumps that go up and down the motor vertically) that had blown out and must have had the motor sucking air. There are other seams leaking where I see signs of fuel seepage, not much though. Could that be a problem?

I love having a vintage merc on my boat. It looks great and got a lot of compliments this past weekend at an ACBS show. I spent an incredible amount of time on this motor, but since getting my boat in the water, it has been continually frustrating. I'm about ready to trade the vintage motor in on something newer (like 2010), and go boating!

Thanks for the help. I'll do a compression check tonight, see what I get.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11501

Sounds like the basics are taken care of.

Assuming everything else is up to snuff, the only thing i can think of is low compression, too much prop or maybe a weak ignition system thats not letting you get up to full operating RPM....??

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11502

I've had lots of people say I should be running a 21P or 23P prop with this boat. That would bleed rpms, not gain them from the 19P I've been running.

I've got two brand new coils.

I'll check compression tonight, that's easy to do. Thanks!

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11506

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Have you tried a 17 or 18p prop? I think if you want higher rpm's you need a lower pitch prop.... Mike

PS GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR COMPRESSION READINGS.....

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Compression readings 14 years 4 months ago #11515

#1 - 116
#2 - 117
#3 - 109
#4 - 115
#5 - 114
#6 - 112

Are these #s holding rpms back you think?

I sure hope this new outboard tach I got is close to right.

Frank

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Re:Compression readings 14 years 4 months ago #11520

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I like em higher Frank my self personally in the 125 range but others have disputed that requirement but when you did the carbs did you replace any of the jets? I'd have to look again to see if the carb have welsh plugs but did you pop them if they do and blow them out and soak the bodies well??

If Tim did your timing I would not question it. Fresh fuel pump diaphragm kits and check valves, double check the carbs the rest???? See about getting the cylinders looked at with the leak down test to give you a better idea of the health of the cylinders. Rings could be mushy and tired. I have a few of these blocks. If it turns into a winter project on the power head do not get discouraged. When you did the head did you replace all the gaskets and end cap seals? Reseal the crank case and block? Just trying to think of anywhere that you could be losing performance is all.

For now just go out and enjoy the spoils of your work. 38 MPH is perfect for now. Over the winter and into next year is something to look forward to. I have only been on one boat ride so far (no lake testing does not count I like to be with friends and family to consider it boating) and I ended up breaking a rib on the 4th. 1900 lbs of boat heaving back at you will hurt.

Take a break from making it perfect and just enjoy the summer!!!!!

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11522

Compression looks good Frank! You are correct, going up in pitch will drop your rpm's. You need a selection to try, 16-18 maybe. Don't let it get you down, I made several trips to the river to dial mine in.........patience!

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11525

Hey Jim!

One of the guys on the Power Cat email list says it might be a fuel problem, what with the motor being started from time to time on a stand, then let sit over the last couple years, it could be gelled up ethanol stuff. I got some Sta-bil marine ethanol treatment and am going to give that a try. I'll throw my 17P on and give it a try too sometime this week.

Thanks! I wanna get this baby going!

Frank

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Re:Compression readings 14 years 4 months ago #11529

PC1000 wrote:

#1 - 116
#2 - 117
#3 - 109
#4 - 115
#5 - 114
#6 - 112

Are these #s holding rpms back you think?

I sure hope this new outboard tach I got is close to right.

Frank


Compression looks fine.

Sounds like timing isnt an issue...which leaves either weak ignition, fuel problems or too much prop.

Try a 17P and see what it does and go from there.

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11532

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I agree with Jer- ignition issue, or gum in fuel system would be good things to check. How do the plugs look? Even color on all six? Even on all six would eliminate carbs. Then look for signs of a weak ignition component. Just like working on a stubborn hot rod.

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11544

OK, did anyone touch the points? If they were worked on did they get the proper synk and dwell?? The points have to follow one another by 60 degrees, if off it will zap power ....

My 1965 900 is basically the same as your 1963 1000. I set the points 3 times. I got it right the 3rd time. First time I did it wrong was off by 5 degrees. Thing was a pooch... 2nd time dont know what was my problem, it was still a pooch.

3rd time I took it apart I took my time and got it right. Now it pulls barns down.

Just an idea, sounds like your suffering from the same thing.

My 900 will run my 14 foot contender over 50mphGPS @ 5400rpm+- with a 23 pitch cupped prop.

You should pull a 19 easy and a 21 well.

Once you get the motor pulling strong, engine height will gain you mucho MPH....

Conrad

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11551

Tim Calmes rebuilt the entire distributor, and I'm pretty confident he set the points correctly at the time. I've never so much as looked at them!

I think there is more than a reasonable chance it's an ethanol gelling problem, and I'll tell you why. When this motor was 1st rebuilt, with freshly rebuilt carbs, I could squeeze the bulb and get firm bulb, and actually see gas (plenty of it!) coming out of the carbs when I was doing that. I haven't been able to either get a firm bulb OR see gas come out of the carb anymore when I'm priming it since I've had the boat on the water.

So, what next? Direct inject a higher concentration of ethanol treatment see how that works? Some of you guys have had the same problem. These carbs are pretty much freshly rebuilt, i.e. very few hours on them. Is there a way I could "flush" them without a rebuild? I got a funny feeling this may be it.

I think I better start using ethanol treatment in every tank of gas.

Thanks guys.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11558

"There are other seams leaking where I see signs of fuel seepage, not much though. Could that be a problem?"

Yes, this certainly could be a problem depending on where these leaks are. Maybe you could point these out to Tim to learn more.

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E. Carl Kiekhaefer (Mercury Founder) & Joe Poole Sr. @ 1964 Mercury Dealer Meeting

Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11566

Well Joe, I dunked my camera in Keuka Lake Sunday morning, so no pics right now, but soon!

Dick Davis thinks my fuel bulb pressure problem may be a fuel pump diaphragm, so I just ordered 2 kits. They'll be here Thursday. That's an inexpensive and easy rebuild.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11584

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Not sure about ethanol treatments, but I like, and use, Seafoam regularly to clean my fuel systems. Love it.

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11587

Frank have you tried a new fuel hose and primer bulb mine acted the same replace it and the motor reves better now and the bulb will stay firm now
Charles

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11588

Frank have you tried a new fuel hose and primer bulb mine acted the same replace it and the motor reves better now and the bulb will stay firm now
Charles

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11592

When I started having problems with the bulb, I replaced it. Think I should replace the hose too Charles?

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11595

probably not but check the seal on the tank connector maybe sucking air just a thought since the bulb will not get hard
Charles

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11596

Good idea Charles, thanks, I'll do that.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11597

The bulbs not getting hard??

That fuel has to be going somewhere. Do your carbs leak when priming with the bulb?

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11608

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I know I would not want to see gasoline coming out of my carburetors when I prime the bulb

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11609

g3jim wrote:

I know I would not want to see gasoline coming out of my carburetors when I prime the bulb


If hes got float issues, it surely will...and could be a cause of his top end problems.

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11617

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Frank, a couple of "two cents worth", so put me down for a nickle and you can keep the extra penny as a tip. :laugh:

The primer bulb and fuel hose assy. are now available for right around $20, with factory crimped clamps at the bulb. (One less area to have a possible issue.) Wally world carries the Atwood brand, I've had no problems with their stuff and run one of these fuel lines myself. The new primer bulb you bought may have "gone south" on you, it does happen occasionally. The new fuel hose is more resistant to ethanol, definitely the way to go IMO. The Merc fuel connectors have o-rings inside, you can probably match them up at your favorite NAPA store to eliminate that possibility.

The Sta-Bil marine formula (fights the harmful effects of ethanol) claims to have twice the cleaning power of their regular stuff. The normal dosage is 1 oz. for 10 gal, for super cleaning or extended storage they recommend 1 oz. for 5 gal. (I use 1 1/4 oz. with every 12 gal tank I mix up!) If it were me, I'd mix up a strong batch and run it through your motor to try and clean out any "gunk" there may be in your carbs. It's worth a try, and definitely less work than pulling the carbs for rebuild/clean out/refresh. (I've never tried the seafoam, but always heard good things about it.)

Good luck buddy, I hope you get this all worked out!

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Mark

Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11618

Sounds like a plan Mark. I'll get a new hose and mix some Sta-bil marine formula in heavy and see what happens.

My hose "problem" is I have J-rude fittings on my tanks with a merc motor. Crimped connectors are nice and easy to do at the factory, but good stainless screw clamps do fine too.

Supposed to be nice tomorrow night, so maybe right after work I'll take her out and play.

Thanks!

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11620

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I have J-rude fittings on my tanks

I chased down a fuel line air leak (wouldn't idle, lost prime) on a 15hp Johnson on my fishing boat, turned out the old OMC fitting on the fuel line at the tank connector was the culprit. Just a thought. On that same train of thought, you know how Merc uses two different size fuel connectors for small/large hp motors? I don't think OMC has but one size, but are your old connectors/fittings restricting fuel flow? (Too small or gunked inside or something?) Not trying to spend all your money, just throwing ideas out there to try and help find this needle in a haystack. ;)

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Mark

Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11629

Boy Mark, I appreciate all the ideas. Motor runs great, but I think maybe it's not getting all the fuel it's supposed to be getting. I'll check that connector.

Just got back from WalMart, got a new line, fittings are correct on one end, we'll see how my motor fitting looks tonight and take it from there.

A lot of mercs were 5/16, but I'm almost sure my rig is 3/8. I'm pretty sure that's what the line is I just bought, so I sure hope my motor fitting is 3/8 too!

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11644

Can't run the J-Rude hose ends Frank!!! Ask me how I know........go ahead! You need the 3/8" line!!

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11645

Help me out here Jim, NAPA catalog shows all the merc lines 5/16 and j-rude 3/8. The alcohol resistant line I got on there hooks to the motor fitting well. I'm confused.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11647

frank I am using the the same set up you are and the fitting on the tank end of the hose was part of my problem the oring in it was not sealing
Charles

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11673

That's a good idea Charles. I have another one I could try. How would I even know one was bad?

Test tonight, then fuel pump kits come in today, and I'll get them tomorrow and rebuild a couple spare fuel pumps I have in my shop. There's a reasonable chance the old fuel pumps might be the culprit. We'll see!

Thanks.

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11675

marathon6 wrote:

Can't run the J-Rude hose ends Frank!!! Ask me how I know........go ahead! You need the 3/8" line!!


Sure enough Jim, just checked, 5/16! Bought a 3/8 set-up yesterday, need a motor connector in 3/8. Will check with NAPA, then West Marine, see if I can get one today (or tomorrow).

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11683

I've always run an OMC fitting on my tanks whether running a Mercury, OMC, or Chrysler motor. Never had a problem flow problem. It does sound like fuel problems to me. That 1000 should run a 19P easy. Good luck!

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Some people are like slinkies... Not much good for anything, but they sure are fun to push down the stairs.

Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11692

Yeah Doug, but they come in both 5/16 and 3/8. I had 5/16 on, and Jim thinks that's my problem gaining rpms!

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11699

I didnt see anyone mention tank venting, as in check to see that your tanks are vented. Otherwise the engine eventually creates a vaccum in the tank that the pumps cant overcome. In my case (cause I make this mistake often for some reason), she'll start and run fine and then after a short while at higher RMS (or and attempt to get there) performance falls away

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11713

I had that happen the 1st time out Peter, and not since. It literally almost collapsed my tank!

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take any ideas I can!

Frank

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11724

maybe ya need the mantaray riding shotgun to tease ya. lolol

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11732

Sounds like a lot of experienced knowledgable advise being given here. If the issue isn't resolved I may not be able to help personally but I know where there are some serious 'mercheads' that have helped me a lot in the past. Try Johns Old Mercury web site, there are forums and expertise there.

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Re:Still dialing my '63 Merc 1000 in... any ideas? 14 years 4 months ago #11733

I'm registered on John's Old Mercs site, but I think we're on our way here. I should know soon whether it's a fuel issue or not. I think there's more than a reasonable chance it's fuel.

Frank

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