TOPIC: Primer questions

I put on Rustoleum Marine coatings (primer and top coat) first time around, and because I did not sand between coats, it came out crummy. Hey, I'm new at this stuff! In retrospect I should have sanded it smooth and re-coated with the same product, but was convinced to switch to Interlux. That caused compatibilty problems and I had sand everything off. I have started again with Interlux Pre-Kote primer, and have just sanded the third coat.

Now, after an amazing amount of wasted time, I have a few questions. I am assuming because of the previous incompatibility problem I better have a full coverage of Pre-Kote before applying Interlux Brightsides. I have sanded the last coat with 120 and it's baby cheek smooth. As you can see, I have areas where color shows through. Can I just prime those areas, and when dry, fair it into the surrounding primer? Or should I just do the whole thing again?

Never having done this before, I am open to suggestions. I just don't want to have to do everything over again! Thanks.

Frank

frank, when my boat was done my buddy sprayed epoxy primer, it was never sanded. it took about 6 months to find someone who would paint it, and i doubt that they sanded it at the shop because i had it all masked off before i brought it to them. also the price i got was for painting only. ron

as your finding when you sand thru the layers of existing paint you expose layers that may not be compatible with what your about to spray the whole job is completed and looks great but the couple areas you sanded thru may craze and wrinkle...

spot priming works fine but when I do this I wetsand to feather edge the new layer of primer

primer shoot the whole thing again, not only provides a better even finish but you need the gun time

I too shoot 2 part epoxies & I wetsand between coats, I dont like orange peel I like the Wet Look

First of all Ron, it's Frank, not Dave.

I'm not spraying, I'm brushing. Not fun, but I need to get top coat on this boat and get it out of my garage. I don't have my air system set up yet, and have absolutely no experience spraying. I sure wish I did, because I'm about tired of sanding brush marks off.

So what, spot prime, sand, then do a final coat?

Frank

hehe...cc1000 and pc1000...so i screw up occasionally.

So what, spot prime, sand, then do a final coat?

that will work frank, do you have an air compressor?

although I have the room for a permenant booth, I only use disposable spray booths from 2x4's and 3 mil plastic painters drop cloths,I even do custom stripes & grafics. for an exhaust fan I use a standard box fan which evacuates the space for me fine,

If you end up with any dust or dry spots in your paint remember that you can buff it out in 30 days when you wax to protect your new paint

the PickleFork below was painted last year in a dispoable booth,Im currently painting one of my other race boats in a plastic booth I built, Ill show you pics when its done, one can still produce nice work without all the professional equipment

I have a 90 gallon air compressor, filters, black pipe to make a line, room for a disposable spray booth, an hvlp gun, but nothing is set up, and I have no experience. I need to get the deck in top coat, so figured I would fall back on brushing to get it done, but the sanding is gonna kill me. Seems like I'm always a behind the 8 ball.

That pickle fork looks beautiful!

Frank

Frank,
I have missed something I believe. Why are you worried about getting the topcoat on so quick? If you prime it, set it outside and cover it is should be ok. Just DON'T cover it with plastic or a tarp that is laying directly on it. It will sweat and hold in moisture and cause all kinds of bubbles, dimples, etc. Is that what happened to your first primer coat? If it is, then just prime it and build a little frame to drpae the cover over but not directly on the deck and you should be ok until time to paint.

Spraying is so simple, I really hate to see you brush it and then have to sand it out, especially with your back issues. One thing to remember, and I have to make myself do this sometimes, it's just a boat. It's meant to be lots of fun and enjoyed, not stressed out over and worried over. All boats look good on the water no matter how good or how bad the paint job looks.

I think it might be time to just back away for a while and let the topcoat go until the time is right. A rushed job is usually a bad job. And you've done to much work, and too good of work to rush it at this point. Just my thoughts. Let me know more about what has all this started. I wish you were closer, we'd get together and take care of it for ya.

I've got to run to town with my father in law but I'll be back in a little while. If ya wanna email me my addy is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Doug

F - You are sanding too much! If you have sanded through the primer back to the base then you have eliminated the benefit of the primer. Lay on another coat of Pre-Kote. Let it dry, then lightly sand it with 220 to dull it. No more! Clean like your mother-in-law was coming. No...clean like YOUR mother was coming (I know...but work with me here). Then start laying on your finish coats. Red over gray is going to take a minimum of 3, and maybe as many as 5 coats. There will be plenty to sand later if you need to. The key is if you liked what you saw in primer paint....don't sand it off...leave it and start finishing. My article Paint it Black is posted on the site. Use it.

And, I agree completly with Doug. It's a boat. It's not your wife or kids health. We're not working on world peace or world hunger. The sun will rise tomorrow. It will set tomorrow whether you have a perfect paint job or not. You do fantastic work. Get the darn thing colored in red, get the motor on it, and get it on the water. At 50+ at 10', it will look great. Frankly (no pun), it looks great standing still. And remember my friend. We're from the North Country. There's nothing wrong with primer gray as a finish coat. B

I agree with Doug,

spray painting is easier than rattle cans I ASSURE YOU, the most difficult part is correct viscosity(which can be measured with a viscosity cup.... problem solved)& the best spray pattern/atomization so that the paint is atomized enough to help reduce orange peel & flows well with the final wet coat.

sorry to hear about all your brush strokes Frank, with your health issues all that brush stroke sanding cant be good

Properly done as Frank did it, there are no brush strokes. As they say in Kitchen Stadium...."Let the Battle begin!"

Maybe this sounds stupid Doug, but I want my new GMC in the garage. I drive that every day, like to keep it shiny and clean, and it's just more work and effort to do that when it's sitting outside. Trust me Doug, I wish we lived closer too. I could use a hand. Once this is sanded, a sprayed coat would go down baby skin smooth, as would the top coats. I could be done in a day. Instead this is going to take me weeks of spare time to paint, maybe a month. Also, I am not rushing it. That's the problem. It takes too much time to sand after each coat, but I'm doing it. That was my mistake with the Rustoleum, and after everything I've gone through since I've learned my lesson.

Mad props, I am brushing, NOT using rattle cans.

Apparently the problem with this last coat was I did it in the sun so I could see what I was doing, and it dried too quick, even with plenty of 333. I've got at least 3 hours of sanding on it, and at least two to go. Keep in mind folks I've never done this before (not counting the times I've done stuff over on this boat), so everything is an experiment.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Frank

so i guess the verdict is in. re-prime the whole thing and don't sand it. but should or shouldn't it be sanded before the color goes on, and why? my boat wasn't and i haven't noticed any difference now in 4 yrs. ron

I wet sand my primer coats before the color coat with 400 grit wet/dry

the reason is to knock down the primer to a finer finish, the primer contains coarser particles to aid in filling micro scratches etc , actually I use a Feather Fill Primer, its like spraying severley thinned body filler you need a primer tip on the gun for this, the wet sanding will provide a finer finish especially if being sprayed

if your brushing no need to sand your primer coat,

are you using a foam roller then a brush to finish it out, to do this job? I heard no mention of a foam roller, it spreads the material much faster giving you more working time for the paint to flow after you tip it out with the brush?
just a thought
Michael

here is the current project my carbon fiber Tunnel boat painted red first in a disposable booth & then today Im laying out silver & black grafics and Ill finish those edges with white pinstripe

when the grafics are completed and 2-3 days dry I will wet sand the entire hull again with 600 grit wet/dry to prep it for clear coat

F - Here is the article I wrote for ACBS Rudder that is posted on the site. Follow it and you will be fine. B

www.fiberglassics.com/latest/paint-it-black

PC1000 wrote:

It takes too much time to sand after each coat, but I'm doing it. That was my mistake with the Rustoleum, and after everything I've gone through since I've learned my lesson.

I've got at least 3 hours of sanding on it, and at least two to go.
Frank

Frank,
Maybe wetsanding it would be easier? I hate dry sanding. Always takes for ever to get it done. I usually wetsand my primer with 400 or 600 grit wet. The water helps cut the crud out of the sandpaper and it gets super super smooth. When I'm not using my air powered wetsander I use a sanding block for the flat areas, and the palm of my hand for the curved areas. I sometimes use a water hose on trickle in my free hand, or a bucket of fresh water and one of those great big ol' cheap car wash sponges. Just soak it up and hold it above the area you're sanding and squeeze it every now and then. You may want to give it a try and see if it's easier for you.

Whatever you do, make sure you do sand the final coat a bit. It needs to be sanded because braking the surface of the primer gives the paint something to "bite" onto. You could spray right over the unsanded primer but you run the risk of having it turn loose later on.

Doug

Read your primer can or spec sheet. You may be required to sand if the primer dries for more than 24 hours. Most epoxy primers are this way. If the primer has not fully cured the paint will adhere better. If it has fully cured it will need to be made dull.

Gilligan

crosbyboat wrote:

And, I agree completly with Doug. It's a boat. It's not your wife or kids health. We're not working on world peace or world hunger. The sun will rise tomorrow. It will set tomorrow whether you have a perfect paint job or not. You do fantastic work. Get the darn thing colored in red, get the motor on it, and get it on the water. At 50+ at 10', it will look great. :

Frank, I add my agreement with these guys, you are over stressing about this. I do it too, but you are taking it to extremes. Keep in mind, you are probably the only person who will get a foot away from this paint job and look at very square inch.

Like I said before, perfect is the enemy of good. Keep in mind also that some of us spray paint out in the driveway without any enclosure at all. The bugs LOVE it, but they wash away pretty good after the paint cures....

I am still driving around in my Pcat with the marks of a plastic tarp that I stupidly tried to tent my wet paint with when the dew stared to fall. I scratched them down with 150 grit and I have never repainted it yet. I STILL had a couple old geezers like me run over to exclaim what a cool old boat it was at the ramp last weekend. They didn't see the screwups in the paint, they saw the boat.

And this is why I coined the term "GOING ALL FRANK ON IT"
But you know, In a way I am behind you Frank. If you strive for perfection you will at the least achieve satisfaction and a job well done.

BTW Frank, Today I started to build this engine box cover. after about 5 Hr's of not being able to do what I wanted in the way I wanted to do it, I thew my hands up and this together on a lark and it turned out great.

Sometimes it takes frustration and capitulation to make the best things happen. You will get there frank. Brush on 3 coats and dont sand be twine.. Sand it till the brush strokes are gone and get to that rub rail!

F - lots of opinions posted, but you MUST sand between coats. Just read the instructions on the can. You just want to dull the finish, not sand it off. Realize that Pre-Kote is formulated to act like double back sticky tape. It actually slightly dissolves the resin coat to get a good stick, and the Brightsides works the same when it hits the Pre-Kote. Again, read the article I posted. I've done over more than 20 boats with Brightsides. B

crosbyboat wrote

F - lots of opinions posted,

All with good intentions, I'm sure. Sometimes the hardest part is sifting thru them to find your answer, seems that everyone has their own method of doing things in most instances. When in doubt, go with the people you know and trust, Frank.

The bottom line here is many are trying to help, and we're all pulling for you and wish you much success! Hang in there buddy, you'll have the new Jimmy back in the garage and be cruising in your PC before you know it!

Yes Mark, all with good intentions, and I very much appreciate all the suggestions.

Once I sand the brush marks off the last coat I did, I may experiment with some new ideas. I think the last coat gave me problems because I did it outside. Next one I'll do inside and see if it's different. I am using Brian's process, but he's done more than 20 boats and this is my 1st. And no doubt last.

My advice to anyone who has problems with coatings is to read the cans and do it over if need be. When I did the first coatings (NOT Interlux), I didn't sand between coats and should have. Then I changed to another system thinking it would be better, and ran into major compatibility problems. If I had just sanded smooth the original coating and re-applied, sanding between coats, the boat would be done and I would be installing the rub rail, motor and controls, and the rest of the rigging. Instead I'm doing everything over, and am a long ways away. Heck of a lesson, and not fun.

Someone wondered how soon I could re-apply the primer (Interlux Pre-Kote). At 75 degrees, after 16 hours you can sand, clean, then re-coat. Sand between coats with 120, before top coat with 220. That's all the can says.

Someone else asked about brushes. I'm using high quality foam brushes. I forget their brand name (maybe Wooster?), but they're the most expensive foam brushes you can get at Lowe's. Each comes in it's own cardboard display package.

This is how she looked last year before I sanded off 2-3 coats of primer and 2-3 top coats...

Frank