TOPIC: Siphoning Gas

Hello all, new to the forum/board.
I am buying a 1981 Nordic with a 150HP Mercury outboard.

I do not have any clue what the capacity of the fuel tanks are, and since I was not the one that filled them, I prefer to err on the side of caution and siphon out all the gas and then refill them with fresh gas.

Questions:

I will know soon what the exact model and year of the Mercury outboard, as I had it professionally inspected before I bought the boat, and they recommended I replace the wiring harness (old one is corroded and ...old) Its a 2 cycle, 5 cylinder motor, and so i will need some recommendations on the right oil additive and octane.

At least one of the latching gas lids needs a new rubber seal, which I presume I can craft out of something. (another reason I am concerned about the fuel). My intent is to drain the tanks as best I can, fill one to capacity to determine how much it holds, siphon off a gallon or so of fuel and add the right mix of oil, then top the tank back off. Then repeat on the other tank, since its possible they are not the same size (unlikely but I am trying not to take chances).

I've heard folks talking about water separators, is this something that is installed in the fuel line to filter out water before it gets from the tank to the motor?

I am not mechanically inclined when it comes to motors, and prefer to leave most of that to the pros, but I do know wiring and was told I'd need a new tach. Where can I go to find one that works with the older-style motor I have? I plan to do that install work myself.

Lastly, the boat currently has no navigation/running lights or horn. I don't plan to run the boat at night, but I am also big on safety and I know sometimes a day runs long and suddenly its sunset and you are late for the dock. I'd appreciate advice on where to buy some aftermarket nav lights, and perhaps a horn.

Amigold, first and foremost welcome to FiberGlassics! I'd like to give you my opinion on a couple items here:

My intent is to drain the tanks as best I can, fill one to capacity to determine how much it holds, siphon off a gallon or so of fuel and add the right mix of oil, then top the tank back off.

I would definitely drain/siphon/pump the tanks dry, don't take a chance on whats in there now, especially with the bad filler seal you have noted. However, doing it the way you have described will not mix the oil with the gas properly, leading to possible engine problems. I understand your dilemma, not knowing the capacity of the tanks. By dumping the proper amount of oil into a basically full tank, it will not mix. The oil should be added before the raw gas is pumped in, to help mix it up when the gas is pumped in. However, until you do determine the size of the tanks, you MUST mix the gas and oil thoroughly before putting it in the tanks.

Fuel filter/Water Separators are a must (IMHO) for permanent gas tanks. They are in fact installed between the tank and the motor, on the "suction" side of the fuel pump. There are several good models on the market, I'll just leave it at that.

They, as well as the lights and hardware to mount and install them are available on several good websites such as www.westmarine.com , www.iboats.com , www.bassproshops.com , etc.. The search is half the fun, good luck.

edited:

what I am working with over here is

1981 Crestliner Nordic, how long is it or is there a model#, they usually get blended in to the serial number on the stern

Usually, but not always, there is a tag on top of fixed tanks close to the opening (on the tank), that will list the mfg. and the capacity in gallons. You'll need a small extendo-mirror and a flashlight, if you can access them, to see it.

I got 5 different model numbers for Crestliner Nodic, that look like they work off the length of the boat 1641, 1841, 1856, 2051, 2056.

if there something there that stands out let me know I will keep digging.

added edit: I been finding a problem...all the Nordic models I have found are aluminum...and nothing similar of the picture.

that kind of strikes me as a little like a Vegas maybe?

Ok..Ok...I put the cart in front of the horse, after some more looking around there is a Nordic...and bla bla..they are called "Nordic Boats"...and there has to be about.....50 different models

just gonna wait and see if he will fill in the model....

got a bit of a problem with any one sucking on fuel, if he wanted he could do what he is talking about...but is there anything saying the tank is full..or?

PLEASE pardon my "attitude" here, but I'm still in a mood over another thread I read here from last night .......
Houston wrote:

got a bit of a problem with any one sucking on fuel

MarkS wrote:

drain/siphon/pump the tanks dry

Does anyone see the word "suck" here? They make cheap siphon pumps for kerosene cans, or water, or whatever that would work long enough to remove the old gas from the tanks. The best way would probably be to remove the fitting from the fuel hose going to the motor and EXTRACT the questionable fuel from there, ensuring the removal of as much of it as possible?

Guess I now have to add: CAUTION - Do NOT suck on fuel lines, it will make you sick! AND should probably add: may still be very flamable, don't use electric drill powered pumps, smoke while doing this, perform fuel extraction in a garage with a gas water heater (pilot light), etc... AND Please dispose of even bad gasoline properly, it's a hazardous material as described by the US Government!

Houston wrote:

but is there anything saying the tank is full..or?

MarkS wrote:

However, until you do determine the size of the tanks, you MUST mix the gas and oil thoroughly before putting it in the tanks

Honestly, I've never owned a boat with a permanent fuel tank, so I shouldn't have even tried to help out here, just trying because no one else had answered. Even if you know the capacity of the tank, unless it's entirely empty, how do you know how much oil to add. My statement about mixing before putting it in would seem to me to apply most or all the time. Whether or not the tank was

"full or ?"

would be irrelevant then. I heeded advise NOT to use "pre-mixed" fuel from a marina pump, as the actual ratio is truly unknown, so this makes for quite the dilemma. Since I'm eventually planning on putting a permanent tank under the floor of my Starflite BOWRIDER, I'd be interested in some expert advise myself here. Assuming it can be done without putting down someone else's choice of boats, or lack of gov't required caution labels, etc...

hi mark,i respect you emensly,you give great advise,and your a real nice guy,but if your mad at huston,please dont be,i know him well,hes also a great guy,and i know he did not try to direspect you,its just the way mark talks.
im sure he wasnt trying to put down your thread,dont forget how easy it is to offend someone by accident,because these are written words,and we cant see the emotion that goes into our posts.
like a someone here once said,(i wish i could remember who it was)write your post then wait ten minutes,then reread it ,you might not have posted it,lol,lol,i probably should have waited 10 minutes,lol.
and like i said mark,your a great guy,and very knowledgeable about boats,and please dont think im disrespecting you,heck i even like ya,lol,your friend john

It's all good, John, I'm not "mad". (Thanks for your kind words and concern.) Just setting the record straight, that's all.

you might not have posted it,lol,lol,i probably should have waited 10 minutes,lol.

That's excellent advise, I went and took a shower and got ready for work before posting. My post stands.

Hope EVERYBODY has a great day!

Just a thought for the fill part of the mixing. I would suggest getting 2 - 5 gallon gas cans and put the correct amount of oil in each before filling. Put in a gallon of gas and agitate to mix well. When finished you can dump each as needed into the boat and be assured of a correct mix. Most of the time you will probably only do one of them. If that is too heavy get smaller cans. Nice thing is that once you figure out the amount of oil you need you never have to adjust for more or less.

john-gibson wrote:

hi mark,i respect you emensly,you give great advise,and your a real nice guy,but if your mad at huston,please dont be,i know him well,hes also a great guy,and i know he did not try to direspect you,its just the way mark talks.
im sure he wasnt trying to put down your thread,dont forget how easy it is to offend someone by accident,because these are written words,and we cant see the emotion that goes into our posts.
like a someone here once said,(i wish i could remember who it was)write your post then wait ten minutes,then reread it ,you might not have posted it,lol,lol,i probably should have waited 10 minutes,lol.
and like i said mark,your a great guy,and very knowledgeable about boats,and please dont think im disrespecting you,heck i even like ya,lol,your friend john

i'll second that john. mark (houston)sure does have a way with words. i wouldn't want to hear it any other way. geez...if i did i would really think he had brain damage.yep he's still on an even keel. ron

ok,...MarkS, I didn't mean to...insult anyone ok, but how would you visualize this siphoning? being I am from "down-on-the farm" mostly and I have seen folks do more then jeff foxworthy could joke about...so, the first thing that pop into my head was of course...so

I guess, what I would do, since I have done it, is to put a cheap inline 12 volt fuel pump on the feed for the motor, and then add a line out of the boat via the stern drain to a plastic 5 gallon fuel can(s) that would be placed on the ground for they would be safely "grounded", that's how I would handle getting the fuel out....

again...there is nothing saying the tank is "full" and or if there is a gauge stating other wise (if there was, I really don't trust them unless I have used them in a car/boat/truck/plane).

next, I would find a spec sheet for the boat's Make and model, which I have had to do this also where I found the info for the boat in an old popular mechanics magazine, stating just what the fuel tank capacity is for the boat's make and model, any one want to wonder the what for's of all the above....just think "Cobia"

Now, in my case, I knew I was looking at working with 45 gallons of fuel, turn out the tank was fuel of old fuel and the fuel gauge was showing empty because the wires rotted off, but I managed to empty the tank as safely as I could possibly do.

now, if this guy does all of the above...he should be in good shape, if he would post the model of the Nordac, I would be happy to dig around for a spec sheet.

PLEASE pardon my "attitude" here, but I'm still in a mood over another thread I read here from last night

was I in that other thread, or did you just pick me to flame out on at random?

Forgiving
H

I am buying a 1981 Nordic with a 150HP Mercury outboard

Is this where one would point out to, "ask the seller" about the fuel tank and it's capacity?

I really wish this guy would post the model:

(Edited)
It's a 1981 Nordic "Bubbledeck"

I called Nodic Boats and spoke with a very helpful Larry Songster, and to all avail Nordic boat where bought-out back in 2005, and the only information they have is back til then.

invited Larry to the site also.

Houston, please accept my sincere apology for "flaming out" on you. You were NOT in the other post, you had nothing to do with that. I could have and should have chosen my words more carefully, I'm human and make more mistakes than most, probably. You were not "picked at random".
I was responding to you and the fact that this is the second time you had mis-read my post, or read something in that I didn't say.

1 - I didn't ask for the thread on "How to Destroy a Something-or-Other" be deleted, I asked that it be closed before it developed into a fight. It was left open as you requested, and the pissin' contest that followed is history.
2 - I didn't tell the guy to suck gas out of a hose, or how to figure out the capacity of his gas tanks. I try hard not to take anything on here personally, but hope you understand why I felt I was coming under "friendly fire" for the second time.

You and I have had some cordial conversations on here, and I believe although I don't know you as well as some people do, I'd like to be a "friend" to all that will have me. We're on this earth a very short time, and the only thing we really leave behind is our friends. If we were standing face to face, I would extend my hand to you and ask that this be water under the bridge. Whaddaya say?

Wow you went above and beyond there to go to the trouble of trying to contact someone at Nordic. Yes, that was the same info I got from them; since the buyout they had little or no data on the older boats. When I get the boat repaired and running the family is thinking of taking a trip out to Lake Havasu and we might just visit Nordic while we are there and show them the boat.

Best guestimate is that the boat is a 1981 Nordic Bubbledeck.
The some Mercury experts spotted the decals and markings on the motor and insist its a 1975 model. Mechanic made a guess at a 1976. I have the serial number of the motor, 4125024, and will try to look that up on the manufacturer website for more data. Its either a 5 cylinder or a inline 6, I don't know that yet, and I forgot to ask when I chatted with the mechanic today.

Its getting the wiring harness replaced right now. The old one was corroded, and that was the only outstanding issue the repair shop said needed attention on the motor. I have asked them to look into installing a gas-water filter on the line from the tanks and the mechanic will call me back in the next day or so about that modification. As soon as I complete the purchase and the repairs and get the boat home I will take some more detailed pictures of the boat/trailer/motor.

We finally settled on $1500 for the whole shebang, including several accessories like a new ski rope, some skis and kneeboards, lifejackets, new extinguisher, and I think a spare prop or two. The seller is in construction, had bought the boat himself last fall, and due to the economy had to turn around and sell it. He's in the roofing biz as a seller so he dropped the price a bit, and we bought a roof from him, and he just bought new tags / registration. (Which we will have to re-register when we buy it, but we needed legal tags to be able to haul it to the repair shop to get checked out.)

I found out a lot of info from some folks on screamandfly.com
forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1915011#post1915011 about the motor. I gathered from them that there are newer nordic speedboat owners on that site.

I also found the only other picture of a bubblehull outboard version I have been able to locate in a month of casual searches.
(attached below)

They also mentioned that with some of the beefier outboards like 200-230hp they are posting speeds of 70-90mph. I'm curious how the boat will perform with the 35 year old 150HP. Seeing as the speed limit at my nearest reservoir is around 40-45, I figure its a moot point until I find bigger lakes.

Finally, regarding the gas issue, I think the best option is to try to siphon from the tanks via the fuel line and then fill an external 5 gallon tank with the exact premix, and then keep pouring that into the tanks until they're full. That way the premix is optimal, and there is no guessing how much each tank holds. I may yet find an owner out there with a manual, and/or be able to get a reading off the tanks themselves.

The seller had no documentation on the boat, and may have only driven it once before he had to winterize it and stow it, and then due to financial difficulties sell it. So I have had to do a load of research up front on the boat and motor before I even finalized the deal. I did the smart thing and had a professional shop check out the motor. It was one of those things where your gut told you it was a potentially good deal and no red flags came up when pros looked it over.

When I get it back from the shop I will have more detailed pics for y'all to look at. I appreciate your help!

store.eastcoastmarineservice.com/category_s/881.htm

I love the web. Mercury 1500 150HP 1975 Model.
I will know more later, but since it has trim controls its Merc 1500 ELPT

i sucked it out a few times. gotta use a clear hose though. never got a drop in my mouth. now i have a hand pump.

I haven't sucked any gas into my mouth for quite a few years now.
However, the last time I did I was testing the vacuum advance on a distributor , by mouth, and the vacuum line and and advance were full of gasoline. ( Unusual, but apparently it does happen ).
To make a long story short, I found that day that a big meal of spaghetti helped to remove the gasoline taste from my mouth and throat better than anything else I've tried. I was able to pass on this "gem of wisdom" to another boater recently. A boater flagged me down, and told me that he had just managed to get a mouthful of gasoline . He asked me if he was going to die. I told him " no, but I do recommend a spaghetti dinner !"

Mercury 1500 150HP 1975 Model

are you sure about the 1975, or is it a 1985, 1985 or so came with oil injection as an option.

(now...I sure, this is gonna stir up a controversy )

MarkS, look...

if you go back an reread this, I never said what you said was wrong, matter of fact what I was inline to was just the word in "general" in the header, by the poster remember what I said earlier the worst case scenario wasn't what you said rather what I read as the initial post, we seem to be in tune about how to get it done and your right pretty much. My moment with the cobia was taking the fuel tank port out of deck...and removing the fuel pick-up and return top of the tank.

one thing I have forgotten to mention was how important it is to run a wire to the tank to the ground of an electric pump...

I had a static spark "pop" in the opening and it set the cobia's fuel tank on fire, I had a wet rag handy by chance that I used to smother the port and I got the .... out of the boat right in our garbage tote, which I ripped open my leg on something in there...

long story short, phone in hand after I got out of the garbage tote was, if I was going to call 911...just how am I going to explain what I may needed them for....my bleeding leg or my smoking boats fuel tank..

MarkS, it all water under the bridge, which the water could be trouble...but that bridge is friendship, hopefully.

PS...just thought I let you know Ron went from sucking on fuel hoses to now the hard stuff...he is sniffing fuel cans!

PSS. I am really surprised that no one yet has explained to Amigoid that his motor is an inline 6....and he'll find the missing one way up under the crowling

i sucked it out a few times. gotta use a clear hose though. never got a drop in my mouth

ok everyone,we need to have a group interdiction for Ron, it seems he's hooked on gas fumes...next he will be trying to snort propwash through a staw with his nose...

Ok..Ok, I know where the bench is....

I used a siphontube with a brass checkvalve you shake up and down in the fluid to get the siphon going.

I drained the tanks, and then added fresh fuel.

91 octane, about 40:1 (a smidge richer than 50:1 since I had some posters telling me to go 50:1 (2% mix) and 32:1 (3% mix).
I filled a 5 gallon can, and then filled the premixed fuel into the tanks. 14 gallon tanks! Wow, bigger than I expected.

Oh and this was a picture AFTER our first outing, when I discovered the mounting screws had rusted loose on the bench, so I took a quick snapshot of the side tank.

I guess that's why they call it a "shake-down run", Amigoid! Run it and see what shakes down, or in your case off. JK, if that was the only problem you encountered, I'd say things went well, right? Rusted mounting hardware is minimal, IMHO. I know you worked hard on getting the boat ready, but it appears your efforts paid off. Glad to hear you got the fuel tanks drained with no fires or toxic inhalation. Lets see, 14gal X 2 (28) divided by 5 (gal can) = sore back.

PS - Saw your post on the polish, the boat looks great!

edit - saw the Merc Outpost thread, removed "how did the motor run"

I was really worried that the motor would throw a rod or some other disasterous scenario, so going out in a small reservoir was part of the plan; if things went south we could get help easily.

I am taking the boat out again Thursday to test and see how "Racing Stripes" runs after the fuel filter is replaced. Then its on to trying to fix the next thing on the list. The wood platform the bench sits on needs to be tightened up with some fresh screws and then the bench can be reattached.

The benches are not so bad off, the pilot/copilot seat backs have some cracking you can see in the picture.