Starter/solenoid ground questions

Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16882

JetDeville700
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I'm completely befuddled here folks. Got a good strong ground from the solenoid to the starter here:

Got a ground on the solenoid to the bolt that holds it to its bracket here:

But to start the motor, I have to put a piece of steel (conductor) across the base of the solenoid (see where the red paint is off?) to the bracket that holds the solenoid under the starter:

This all seems to be because I cannot tighten the nut on the starter stud that's visible in the first two pics. The stud is stripped, and I figured I'd just run a ground to fix it for now, but how and where?

Any ideas greatly appreciated!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16883

MadProps Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 703 Karma: 27 Thank you received: 0	Frank the piece you painted red at the arrow touching the braided ground strap....is it painted on the side that touches the ground strap? you may need to scrape some paint off Attachments: Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16884

JetDeville700
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I haven't had any problems with this all year, and you think maybe that's it? I'll check it out.

I wonder too if I should replace that 47 year old braided strap with a 10 ga one? I had to do that for the old strap that grounded to the bonnet on the forward port side. It had just disintegrated.

I want to be able to start my motor from the driver's seat alone. Right now I have to have somebody turning the key while I make the ground contact. Sheeeesh!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16886

MadProps Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 703 Karma: 27 Thank you received: 0	yes I think that paint may very well be an issue just use a jumper wire to bypass it to ground it and you will know I was also going to suggest you test the braided cable for continuity Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16908

JetDeville700
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Pete (delray) called me earlier and got me going. I got the nut off that starter stud, and ran a thread chaser on the stud. Stud threads are still not in great shape. Nut was no good, so I got another nut, tightened right up.

Took off that braided cable, made a new 10 ga. one. Sanded the red paint off where the bolt holds the ground strap, installed that.

No change in operation. Turn the key on, still goes "click, click." No vroom, vroom at all. Not good. It's dark out now, so 1st light in the a.m., I'll get some help, see if I can start it like I did before, holding a piece of steel across where the red paint is off in that pic above.

Been running this thing all year, no problems. Why now ya think? Something I'm missing obviously. Replace the solenoid?

I'd be interested in yer thoughts. Thanks!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16914

kingdve Offline Junior Boarder Posts: 57 Karma: 2 Thank you received: 0	not seeing it in person or hearing it ... another thing it could be is a stuck brush inside that would do what its doing ... takin it apart will tell you ... Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16917

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Frank
run a jumper cable from the positive of the battery to the positive on the starter to make certain the starter spins OK, sounds to me there is still a bad connection somewhere if your certain you have cleaned all wiring connections related to the starter , solenoid and battery cables including the "CobraHead plug" in the side of the lower cowl.... replace the solenoid if you have a spare

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16918

charles Offline Junior Boarder Posts: 127 Karma: 1 Thank you received: 0	Check the voltage at the solenoid start terminal it should not be under 9.6 volts when you turn tne switch to start I have had two wiring harness with bad wires next to the plug at the moter Charles Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16934

JetDeville700
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charles wrote:

Check the voltage at the solenoid start terminal it should not be under 9.6 volts when you turn the switch to start I have had two wiring harness with bad wires next to the plug at the motor Charles

Charles, how can I check that? I have a multimeter around here somewhere, but no clue as to how to use it.

First thing this a.m., in the dark and cold (about 45 here this a.m.), I went out and ran an old battery cable from positive of the battery to the starter lug. Vroom, vroom. So the starter is fine. I had a spare solenoid, didn't look in great shape, but figured I would try it. Get it on, everything hooked up, everything tight, try to start it, click, click. Solenoid could be bad, no clue. Can't order one from NAPA until Monday. Checked last week, none in town, would have to come from Syracuse. Only problem is the mounting is wrong, but figure I could get it in there somehow. Pic below.

I wish there was some easy way to test these solenoids or anything else that might be the culprit!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16935

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Charles is referring to (I believe) checking the large post on the solenoid with the fat red wire coming from the harness for 12V (constant). Then check the other large post on the other side of the solenoid, (fat black wire running from the solenoid to the starter) which should have 12V when the switch is activated (when you turn the key to start). Your multimeter should have a 12V DC setting, black wire to ground and red to the post/terminal you're checking.

If the solenoid is clicking, you're getting juice to the small + terminal which is what tells the solenoid to connect and sent juice to the starter. Many times the contacts inside the solenoid will corrode with age, and/or arc which eats away the contacts. The spare may very well be shot as well. The above mentioned test will tell you if that is in fact the problem.

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Mark

Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16937

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Okay, my kid got up and grabbed his multimeter. I have more than 9.6 volts at the yellow wire, mostly 10-13+. I have no power at the solenoid lug that goes to the starter. I have 12V at the lug from the battery. Seems like both solenoids are bad. I'm not sure if this was the right way to do it, but we tested the 1st solenoid (the one I took off this a.m.) and it didn't have continuity across the large lugs either.

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16960

pathfinderz1 Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 710 Karma: 16 Thank you received: 0	If you do it carefully you can drill out the rivets on the solenoid and turn the contacts around and that will make it almost like new. I have done that for years as long as the magnet winding are good. Just a thought for you to try till you get a good one. Mike aka pathfinderz1 Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16969

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Tried that before leaving this a.m. Mike, no luck. Thanks for the idea! Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Vroom, vroom 14 years 1 month ago #16985

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Rigged a new solenoid in (Echlin ST81), not easy, but works and fits. My old buddy who is manager of the NAPA I used to work at sold it to me saying "trust me." It works. When I interchange the Sierra Marine # to Echlin, I get ST542 and ST71, so I don't know what to think except my motor now starts from the helm!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16993

MadProps Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 703 Karma: 27 Thank you received: 0	internally the connections in the solenoid may have had resistance glad its fixed Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16995

MarkS Offline Moderator Posts: 5348 Karma: 118 Thank you received: 5	Glad to hear you got her going again Frank. Good parts guys/gals can be worth their weight in gold sometimes, huh! Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #16998

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks Mark. I've always said good parts guys should get paid a LOT more $. Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17003

DelRay Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 272 Karma: 10 Thank you received: 0	Good to hear ya got it fixed Frank!!! Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17015

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Pete, got it figured out. Got my old one back on working. Need some 1/2" ss pan head machine screws, but she's on and working fine. Thank you for the suggestions. Between you, Bernie and Dave Bernard, I count myself fortunate to have good friends patient enough to help me out. Sure was good talking with you the other night too. Enjoy your day sir!

Frank

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17028

MadProps Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 703 Karma: 27 Thank you received: 0	what was the problem & how did you figure it out Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17038

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Drilled the rivets out, found major corrosion. Sanded all the contact stuff shiny, re-assembled. Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17040

MadProps Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 703 Karma: 27 Thank you received: 0	Yep...thats what I thought Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17043

DelRay Offline Expert Boarder Posts: 272 Karma: 10 Thank you received: 0	Aww shucks Frank ya made me blush. No just kidding and yes a lot of great people on here to help out! Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17097

Chinewalker Offline Gold Boarder Posts: 548 Karma: 42 Thank you received: 10	Frank - is your new solenoid a Marine grade one? Reason I ask is there IS a difference. Marine solenoids are sealed to prevent sparking that could cause a fire. WIth open carb mouths inches away, that is a good thing... I am sending a solenoid down with Brian. - Scott Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17099

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No it isn't Scott. I repaired the original one best I can, but it's still not working 100%. I think it's the ground wire inside that comes off the coil. It's very short and I think it's why I have erratic operation.

I sure appreciate your sending a solenoid for me back with Brian. If nothing else, I've gotten real good at removing and installing this baby!

Thanks,

Frank

P.S. I think Brian said all I needed to do is reimburse his gas for the trip...

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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17152

charles Offline Junior Boarder Posts: 127 Karma: 1 Thank you received: 0	Frank sorry I could not get into the site most of the weekend but that is what I meant to do it told you that the switch circuit was good and the solenoid was bad had to do this many times on Harley's Charles Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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Re:Starter/solenoid ground questions 14 years 1 month ago #17154

JetDeville700 Topic Author Offline Platinum Boarder Posts: 3271 Karma: 38 Thank you received: 3	Thanks Charles, we'll see how she goes. I really hope to get one or two more rides in this season before I pull the motor and store the boat. Frank Check this box to be notified of replies to this topic. Note: BBcode and smileys are still usable.
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TOPIC: Starter/solenoid ground questions