TOPIC: ok guys heres the problem...

for the first time since i owned the 62 merc 700 (5 years), it won't start. turns over fine but no ignition. i had it out 3 weeks ago with no problem. ive been trying to start it fully choked as i have in the past. pulled the plugs and they all were wet with gas. dried them out and cleaned them. re-installed, full choke...no ignition. pulled 4 of them and checked for spark...no spark. any ideas welcome. ron

I'd be looking at the distributor cap and coils next

Ron, the first thing I would do is unhook the mercury switch on the port side of the engine. Leave the wires coming in from the front, and re-tighten the screws on the terminal block. If this switch goes bad, it will ground out your ignition system. (You can always hook it back up if this doesn't fix the problem.)

Oh man Ron, this is a no brainer - get an Evinrude! Ha Ha!!!

Mark's suggestion to check the tilt "cut off" switch is a good one. I would suggest that before you do anything, check the voltages. As an electronic technician, this is where I always start the problem solving, as it is the easiest thing to check. If there ain't no voltage, you ain't got no spark!

If you don't have one, go buy yourself a little "pen light" voltage tester. These look sort of like an ice pick with a clear plastic handle & a wire attached to one end. You attach the alligator clip & test lead to the circuit in question, then you touch the "ice pick" end to the motor ground. If the little light bulb inside the plastic handle lights up - you have power. If not, you have a dead circuit. fast & easy.

Turn on the ignition, go back to the engine & attach the test clip to one of the ballast resistors, then touch the test probe to ground. Test all 4 terminal posts on the pair of the resistors. If you have power there, move to the next component. Step by step, don't skip anything.

If there is no power at the ballast resistors, pull the control box & use the tester on the ignition switch.

(the ballast resistors are the ceramic rectanglular things bolted to the engine block, behind the fuel pumps. The each have 2 terminal posts. There should be power at all 4 posts)

mark, i'll work on it saturday and check the switch.
bruce, will buy the penlite voltage tester and check the places you mentioned.
oldboater, the coils and distributor cap are beyond my limited skills.
thanks guys, ron

Number 1, check supply voltage ( battery ) to coils when ignition is turned on, everything else is "downstream" from that ( pardon the pun ). I left my # in your cell voicemail. Call me Ron, bring it down and I'll fix it for you!!

Jim Sgrig

thanks jim. if i can't find the problem saturday with the voltage tester i'll do just that. i'll call you saturday. ron

ok..i bought an acutron digital auto analyzer for $35 bucks. they had nothing with aligator clips. it has 2 wires with needles at the end. one black wire, on red wire. it has 19 different settings . which one do i set it on to check the coils and what part of the coil do i touch with what color wire. also what should it read? ron

ron im not sure what you need to do,but im a simple guy,and i bought 2 of those digital meters and they went nuts on me,i chose a meter with the needle and at least i can see it move when its on ohms,lol,thats for conductivity,just to test if the circut is open.
the digatal meters went crazy and all kinds of numbers came up.but thats just me im kinda old fashioned,lol.

crap, now i don't know if i should open it up after hearing the trouble you had. i think i'm more simpler than you john when it comes to this stuff. they had the one with the needle for $20.

This is what you want Ron: www.bizrate.com/electrical-supplies/oid454560746.html

I got one here, wish I had knew you needed it I would have brought it down.

Multimeters work too, you just need somebody around that understands them!

Frank

frank, correct me if i'm wrong but don't you need to know the amount of voltage going to the coils to determine if they're bad.

If you are just checking circuits for 12 volts, set the meter for 20VDC, ground the black lead, turn ignition on, probe wherever 12V supplies the motor. Best to check the battery first to obtain baseline voltage.

Ron: Your initial post says the motor turns over fine. So there has to be ONE path not making good contact . Like the ROTOR inside the distributer , may be dirty / pitted or top clip broke off .

Another common issue would be the shut off switch , just not opening up any more ,... inside the key ignition switch may have gotten corroded. (Happened with my lawn tractor.).
. I see two round coils in photo , so two can not go bad together . .Had many Mark 350's & Mk 55 where the SQUARE coil inside the dist would melt down & get soft like putty after a hard weekend run. . Maybe a break in some common ground black wire .
. Let us know what you find.

it was a little to cold to work outside today. i'm not foolin with the rotor or cap. don't know how and the last time i took my remote apart it took me weeks to put back together and i had a piece leftover. lol...are all the black wires ground wires?

Ron,


Not to be a prick - but go back & read my original suggestions. , you should be able to get the little tester I talked about (frank mentioned it too) at any automotive supply shop.

The digital meter will work as others have suggested, but if you have no other use for it, take it back. Keep it simple.

ok..i'll return it today and see if i can find that penlite someplace never opened it cause it looked too complcated. if i had used the digital meter and set it on 20vdc as kerry said, what should it read

The DC voltage will be somewhere between 9 and 14, depending on the condition of the battery charge. The exact voltage isn't really the point of concern, because if you have power to the coils, the voltage will simply be what the battery can provide through the wiring. The voltage will be slightly lower on the secondary side of the ballast resistors. What you are really looking for is power to make the light bulb tester work, or not. If it does not light the test lamp when it should, the circuit is dead. If it lights up, the circuit is OK. Most people don't realize that volt meters, especially digital ones, can detect "phantom" voltages and give readings that are not actual when a "load" is applied to the circuit. The light tester actually "loads" the circuit to show it it is live or dead. It is virtually fool proof if used correctly. Every boat & car tool box should include a little pen light tester like that.

Your engine has two 3 cylinder ignition systems to fire the 6 cylinders. It was done that way to make the spark "hotter" in each cylinder firing sequence. By using 2 coils, 2 sets of points, and a special dual rotor & distributor cap, the coils were able to charge twice as long between firing as they would have if there was just a regular 6 cylinder system. This can be very confusing to people not familiar with it. Bottom line, if one coil fails, 3 cylinders will still operate and the engine will run - but very poorly. Because your engine has no spark in either coil - there is a problem with the supply power getting to both systems. My money is on either the ignition switch, or the tilt cut-off switch.

bruce, thanks for the explanation. i'll try all of the suggestions saturday. where is the cut-off switch? ron

That is the silver cylinder that looks like a firecracker with two wires coming out of it on the port side of the motor, just aft of the terminal block, just below the "OK" stamp Ron. The two wires hook to the terminal block. Un-hook those two wires, and leave the wires that remain. Tighten the screws of the terminal block back down and try to start the motor. (Thats a safety switch that grounds out the ignition system to shut the motor off if you hit something that kicks the motor up.)

oh ..thats that mercury switch? i just re-read bruces first post and he referred to it as the cut-off switch. i should of put 2 and 2 together.

Yup, different terminology for the same switch. It's got mercury inside that when the motor tips up, completes a circuit that grounds out the ignition system to shut of the engine = safety. Sorry for the confusion Ron.

ya know mark when i was up at franks a few weeks ago, i hit something in the river. franks son was with me. it acted like i had spun a hub and we trolled back to the dock. i never shut it off and went back out again and throttled up with no problem. the next time i tried to start it was a few days ago when i wanted to winterize it. i wonder if i could of damaged that cut off switch. it was a very hard hit and we kept lookin in the stern for leaks until we got back to the dock. i'll see saturday. ron

Ron, all you need is a test light( I use a head lamp wired with clips to load test the circuit at the same time ) and test for voltage at the Pos post of the first coil ( there is a jumper to power the #2 coil ) when the key is turned on. If the light doesn't light, you're not getting power from the ignition switch, then everything beyond that is irrelevant at that point. If you do have power at the coils, THEN you can start to look elsewhere........ Basics man, basics........

Also, picture #3 shows your mercury switch, to eliminate that quickly, jumper the 2 screws and see if it pops off......

jim,, whaddya mean jumper the 2 screws. ya know i'm a dummy. i see 5 screws. i assume you mean the 2 the wires are attached to. how do you jumper them? ron

ron,he means use a jumper wire ,all that is ,is a wire that is bare at both ends,and touch one end to a screw connection,and the other end to the other conection,bypassing your mercury switch.

ok john. thanks

Correct Ron, the screws with the wires. This will bypass the mercury switch.

I may be late on this, but...

you said you pulled the plugs...that's fine but did you pull one and ground it to see if you got spark, it could be something else like your chocking it and flooding it. by what I read it still an assumption that the plugs are not firing.

snub nose flat head, undo the cap...just drop it down and take a look at the coil pick up...(the floater pin in the middle) and see if it is floating on the spring.

pulled the plugs mark, no spark. gunna do that mercury/cutoff switch next then on to the coils, and if i can't solve that its off for a 3 hr. ride down to Sgrig's.

just stripped a piece of roamex wire a both ends to give me the copper leads. cut my finger twice doing it. this ain't my bag guys. going out now to test the cut off switch. report soon. ron

ok here we go.... with key on or off i have power to the penlite tester (bright)at the red thick wire that attaches to a small black cylinder that is mounted on the starter. on the other side where a thick black wire attaches i have nothing. i have nothing to either screws of the cut off switch (key on). the two vertical ballast resistors above the fuel pumps i have power to the lower one (top screw brite, bottom screw dim)...upper one i have power to the bottom screw brite the upper screw nothing. this is with the key on or off.
the coils... i have power to one screw of both the coils (very dim)
i guess thats it. any more suggestions?
jesus

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i been attaching the alligator clip to a block bolt and probing with the ice pic. let me go try just the opposite.

ok just reversed the procedure using ice pick by touching to engine bolt for ground. same result on the ballast resistors (are they suppose to get hot). on the back coil now both connections are brite. the front coil one connection is dim and the other ..nothing.
cut off switch...top screw brite..bottom screw nothing.

By the cutoff switch, I'm assuming you mean the mercury switch in picture #3? If it's not hot on both leads, the switch is open and causing your problem. Try tapping on the switch with the handle of a screw driver, or jumper the 2 screws as I suggested. After you jump the leads, try starting your engine. Yes, the resistors get hot.

i guess the switch(mercury) is open jim. only lites up on 1 of the screws. will try tapping it tomorrow. i did jump the leads and nuthin happened.

vuyosevich wrote:

i guess the switch(mercury) is open jim. only lites up on 1 of the screws. will try tapping it tomorrow. i did jump the leads and nuthin happened.

If no luck Ron, you know how to get ahold of me! I don't think it's a 3hr trip either.......

My 2 cents
ok here we go.... with key on or off i have power to the penlite tester (bright)at the red thick wire that attaches to a small black cylinder that is mounted on the starter. on the other side where a thick black wire attaches i have nothing.That is the starter solenoid and what you describe is normal.The thick red wire is the main battery cable that goes direct to your battery. The other thick black wire goes to the starter and will not show power until you turn the ignition to start. This would be the yellow wire that is on one of the small terminals on the solenoid.


i have nothing to either screws of the cut off switch (key on).

Again I think this is normal. I would temporarily remove this from the system as was suggested earlier .If you still had the multimeter you could have tested this switch for continuity. I would not jumper across the switch while it is still hooked to the system as I think it actually grounds the system killing the electrical to the distributor.


the two vertical ballast resistors above the fuel pumps i have power to the lower one (top screw brite, bottom screw dim)...upper one i have power to the bottom screw brite the upper screw nothing. this is with the key on or off.
the coils... i have power to one screw of both the coils (very dim)All sounds normal except the fact that you don't have dim power on the upper resistor.The 2 dim wire connections are the are the feed wires to the coils and that is why the test light is dim at the coils themselves.
i guess thats it. any more suggestions?
jesus

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i been attaching the alligator clip to a block bolt and probing with the ice pic. let me go try just the opposite.

ok just reversed the procedure using ice pick by touching to engine bolt for ground. same result on the ballast resistors (are they suppose to get hot). on the back coil now both connections are brite. the front coil one connection is dim and the other ..nothing.
cut off switch...top screw brite..bottom screw nothing.
Question :
How did you determine you had no spark? This is how I would check for no spark. It will require having a second person on hand to turn the key to start while you check for spark. Remove one of the coil wires at the distributor cap and place the metal clip about 1/4 inch from the engine block while your team mate cranks the motor. You should have a blue spark.Reinstall the coil wire at the distributor cap and repeat the same with the second coil. If you have spark there more onto the the spark plug wires.Working at the spark plug end of the wire again hold the metal piece that clips to the plug about 1/4 inch away from the engine block.If after doing the above you have spark from the coil wires and none at the plug wire ends you can suspect cap and rotor. No spark from the coils I would suspect closed/worn points.

BTW I was a ASE master tech. Good luck.

Wiring Diagram

oceans2, first of all thanks for the detailed explanation and the diagram. i checked for spark by pulling each plug and while still attached to the wire i grounded the plug ( metal area not the ceramic top) against the engine block. my wife turned the key and there was no spark at any of the 6 plugs. i do this with my snomobile and the spark is very strong. i've never heard of holding the plug 1/4 inch away and looking for the spark to arc.
i did test the cut-off/ mercury switch for power and none was there. (key on not starting position)) i tested the two screws where the wire are attached
then removed it and re-installed it. then i jumped the 2 screws with a piece of solid copper wire (key on) and nothing happened. i did not tap it as jim advised. i will try that today.
its very difficult to get the alligator clip on the top screw of the top ballast resistor because the engine cover is in the way. i just held the clip against it as i could not clamp it on.
i will test for coil spark also. rotor and cap, points are beyond my ability. report later after i get back from dialysis. thats the worst part of this it really screws up my day, especially when i have something pressing to do. ron

i've never heard of holding the plug 1/4 inch away and looking for the spark to arc.
What I meant was just unsnap the plug wire from the spark plug and hold the metal clip that snaps onto the spark plug 1/4 inch from the engine block. You may need to push the boot back to expose the clippy part.Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

Ron,
What O2 is suggesting is that by making the spark jump 1/4" you are determining just how strong the spark actually is.
Simply watching the spark jump on a spark plug electrode doesn't tell you much as the spark could be really weak and failing - or going to ground somewhere else - when the load is added under compression.
If (3) out of your six won't jump a minimum of 1/4" you can then focus on that half of the ignition.
I haven't read (missed it?) that you have a dim light test positive on the upper terminal of the higher resistor yet.
I'm wondering if The coil voltage 'could' be feedback from a closed set of points?? O2 or Jim Sprig??
Thom