TOPIC: Tilt/Trim Troubleshooting

Is there a way to "hot wire" the tilt/trim to just see if it works?

I have the 2 solenoid system:


Also, is the tilt/trim limit switch needed? I don't see any wires coming out of the engine to hook into that "T" on the 3 wire harness.

Sure Ken. You should have a blue wire (that's up) and a green wire (that's down). I test stuff like that out by just touching the wire to the positive lug on a battery, with ground to the negative lug. You can cycle through once to test, but not a good idea to hot wire it a lot, the wire will get hot!

Frank

By the way Ken, you don't need a limit switch. I have one, but don't have it hooked up, which has never been a problem foe me anyways.

What manual did those diagrams come out of? They're too small for me to get any detail from, and I would like to refer to them for wiring my power lift! Thanks.

Frank

It's kind of "generic", but the basic layout is common to most trim and lift systems, and it does identify the terminal markings on the solenoids;
www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20tilt%20trim%20motor%20tips.pdf
hth

Boy, that is EXCELLENT Mark! Thanks man, even easy enough for Frank to understand. By the way, I'm on page 3...

Frank

Re:Tilt/Trim Hydraulic hoses! 4 Hours, 21 Minutes ago Karma: 25


solenoid?? put the black wire direct to the negative side of the battery then one at a time hit the blue and the green wire from the trim motor to the positive on the battery. green is commonly up and blue down.
you might find the solenoid is bad or your console switch is bad.
start at the trim motor and work your way forward.
good luck
Jim


you do not need the trim limit switch it looks like some one put a wire nut on the wire for it already.

My reply to Mark was about how I'm wiring my power lift Jim. Page 3 of that link is an easy-for-Frank-to-understand diagram. I got two brand spankin new trim solenoids attached to a piece of aluminum angle that is gonna be between my power lift motor and trim switch I'm using for the power lift.

Got the last piece of aluminum bar I needed this morning before work, and hope to start setting the motor up maybe this weekend.

Frank

Frank, the diagram is from the Clymer's Mercury manual. I'll try to get a better picture.

ok, guys, hooked up ground and took a number 10 copper wire from the hot terminal and went to the blue on the solenoid. It made a sound: kinda like a fast clicking, could have been the pump running.

On the other, green terminal from the opposite solenoid I got nothing.

So, at this point should I try to rebuild this, can it be rebuilt?

Do you have oil in that pump Ken? You don't want to be testing it too much with no oil. Not good for it.

You probably have a working pump and a bad "down solenoid," or at least that would be my first guess. Boy, when it comes to solenoids on old stuff, I like new. Certainly couldn't hurt, and I don't think they're terribly expensive. You need at least one, and make sure you get a trim solenoid. An automotive one will NOT work, even though they look the same.

So yes, my inclination is always that I can get old stuff working again. I think you have a good one there, just needs some attention. I may be wrong too, but I bet it's okay.

No need to get me a better diagram Ken, that link Mark posted is very clear and just what I was looking for. Thanks anyways, I appreciate it.

Good luck with that PT&T. I been in the same position, so know enough to be dangerous...

Frank

I thought it might be the solenoid too but since I ran the hotwire directly to the green wire that goes into the pump, I thought that was bypassing the solenoid?

Frank, yes, there is oil in the pump, it isn't full or bleed yet but I filled the pump first. I doubt if there's any oil in the hoses yet since the pump didn't really run.

PC1000 wrote:

An automotive one will NOT work, even though they look the same.

out of curiosity... why not?

In another post I read that the terminals are wired differently.

The only real differanc in soleniods are some are 3 post and some are 4 post. The 4 post are for useing on pumps alot. 3 post will not work on The power trim setups. Look at the markings on the small posts as this is the way to wire them up. Your jumper cable between the small posts must go to the same posts on each one or your system will most likely not work in one direction. Any auto motive one will work the same and be ok to use. You can pick up heavy duty so called marine ones but they cost alot and are only heavy duty auto ones. Skip.

Sorry Ken, I missed that. Yeah, I think that would be a motor problem. Got an electric rebuild place around? We have one in the region that I go to once in a while. They got my 1st merc starter going again, but it cost me 100 bucks & change. Seems everything I go there for is about 100 bucks... 100 bucks would be cheaper than buying a new motor.

The marine vs auto solenoid thing has something to do with a difference in open or closed design. I don't know much about it, but people that understand this stuff impressed upon me the difference.

Frank

I just looked at your pic again Ken, you're jumping to the "signal" terminals on the relays. (NOT bypassing the relay, only the switch) Try jumping to the larger post on the relay, on the far right side of your picture. Generally if the motor runs in one direction, it will run in both! (Still sounds like a bad relay to me.)

You can run automotive relays (outboard applications ONLY), but they may not last as long as they aren't made for the "marine environment". Marine units have corrosion protection (usually sealed body), spark protection, special contact material inside, etc...

Here's a link on the different types, terminal configurations, and how to test them; www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech%20Solenoid%20Circuts%20%26%20Testing.pdf

Yes, Mark, you are correct. Joe Poole also called and told me the same. He is really helpful. I really should have known this but had forgotten that basic principle.

So I did go out today and used the screwdriver to jump the large terminals on the solenoids.

Unfortunately, only jumping the left solenoid caused the motor to run.

Nothing happened when I jumped the right solenoid.

Now what???

May be a bad brush, brush spring, lead, etc. in the motor itself. I can check at work tomorrow and see if we have any customers (electrical rebuilders) in your area (Richmond, right?) that may be able to look at it for you if you'd like? Those motors are expensive, and if yours can be repaired it would be a lot cheaper than replacing it. Does the motor have any numbers on it? I know it's a two solenoid system, but refresh my memory on the year, hp, etc...

If I'm going to have it rebuilt, would it make sense to take it apart and just look to see if it's something obvious?

I have to wait until daylight to get it off!

You can, they're not all that complicated. It can be a little tricky getting the unit re-assembled on the brush plate end, some paper clips (or fine wire) will often hold the brushes in place to make it easier. I wouldn't carry them a box of parts though, they tend to frown on that. I'd let them check the bushings and stuff too Ken, to ensure trouble free operation in the future. (They know what to look for.) Just my two cents.....

Ok, I did take the top plate off just to see if it was something obvious. One brush was stuck, re assembled and still not working so looked at the manual and decided it was time to take it to a pro.

Found a local company who rebuilds DC motors and they thought they could help. Will know in a few weeks.

Thanks for the advice, all.

I picked up the pump today from the rebuilders, they fixed an internal wire/brush and put 2 new solenoids on. Hope to get it back on soon. Figured out a place to mount it today.

Ok, the mystery of tilt/trim is now solved, for me! Not knowing how this system worked and the way it should has been a learning curve.

I had picked up the unit from the rebuilders and went to test it and it would run in one direction! Took it back and they bench tested it in both directions, turned out one of the wires wasn't making a good connection.

So, a few weeks later, (I was diverted by working on a 14ft McKee Craft), I was back on it one bright, hot Saturday morning, (99 plus degrees and humid).

First just hooked it up and tested the pump running in both directions. Again, there was a wiring issue, thought the control switch was bad, had to troubleshoot, track down it. Turned out that there needed to be a connection between the purple and blue to bypass a trim relay.

Then, it was time to fill with oil and bleed it. That was another couple of hot hours. But the engine was going up and down!

So, on to mounting it. With the limited choices and position, I found the best place was tucked under the back (hard to get to). But this had to wait until the next day....

Needless to say, after 2 days, it was all working.

I took the Glastron on a trip to North Carolina's Outer Banks.

It was all good, really nice to not have to lift that 140 hp motor for trailering!

plus.google.com/u/0/photos/106863930081798733251/albums/5773922354234159425/5773922354159015666

Glad to hear you got her all straightened out Ken.