TOPIC: Shakedown cruise with Mercury 1500 Inline 6 150hp

We completed the purchase, and got a trailer hitch installed on our van, and towed the boat back from Valentine's Marine. Off to Cherry Creek Reservoir for its first run. The mechanic's had replaced the cable harness, and they'd said the motor was running okay and had good compression on all the cylinders, but until you get the boat into the water you never know what is going to happen.

We drifted away from shore, as we cranked the motor, and I realized that I had no clue how the throttle controls worked. On my old starcraft outboard and evinrude, it was a single throttle control, with a knob you'd pull out to disengage the prop but let you advance the throttle. This strange thing had a button that said choke... hmm do you hold it while starting...wait, whats this little lever on the right do? OH thats the throttle advance, so I prime the squeeze bulb with 2-3 stout squeezes, move the little throttle up about 60% and ...it started!

Okay I am captain genius, so this big handle obviously is forward neutral and reverse, THUNK! Okay, next time slow the motor down more before putting into gear.... tiktikitktiktakclunk! And off er go idling along.

I figure out that a combination of moving each of the throttles forward gets the motor working faster, and midrange it starts sounding -- odd. Like its losing power. I back it off, idle is smooth, rodger tower we are go for full throttle. The motor winds up, then chokes off and dies.

Sigh.

To make a long story a little shorter, through trial and error I determined that the fuel filter was clogged. When we started accelerating I had my son's give the primer a squeeze and as I shouted out squeeze cadence the motor finally roared to more like full power should feel.

We decided to quit while we were ahead and after making some test maneuvers in forward and reverse, we made for shore and got the boat back up on the trailer.

The fuel line had a FRAM G2 fuel filter, and we replaced it with the equivalent Purolator Premium Plus F20011. I sawed the old plastic filter open. Yugh. The inside was so varnished and yellow, and the filter was filthy. Its a good guess how long it had been since the last swap out. I'll keep a spare handy, I'm hoping my siphoning, fresh fuel, and filter swap will solve the fuel flow problem.

I am also considering a water separation filter (theres a brand with a clear reservoir you can inspect) and putting that in the fuel feed line, but one step at a time.

Current problems:

Fuel guage only works on left tank
Tach pegs when motor is on, no accurate rpm gauge
Trim indicator does not work either
Still need a clue on the finer details of the throttle.

Recently installed one of these, highly recommended especially with permanent fuel tanks.

Amigoid might I suggest a carb rebuild may be in order too if the filter was that bad. Each carb has a filter in it but I would rebuild them if it were mine. Also take a good look at the fuel pump, at a very minimum change the diaphragm but check the valve operation as well.

You also need to replace the water pump impeller before using it again unless you can be absolutely positive it has been recently changed, any doubt whatsoever change it. It's not worth risking the motor for the sake of an impeller. You will also need to change the lower unit oil, if it comes out milky then water has got in there & it may need re-sealing.

The controller is very simple, the main lever is forward to approx 45deg to engage forward gear, continue to push the lever forwards opens the throttle. It's exactly the same for reverse except you move the lever towards the rear. The small lever is for cold start warm up (fast idle) & you hold the choke button down when cranking it to start from cold.

Great boat! I have to ask .....what year and model of StarCraft did you own? any pictures of it? Thanks!

I have attached (I hope) a picture explaining Mercury start up procedures.
Maybe it will help once you get your fuel issue corrected.
Definitely make sure that the water pump impeller is new or less than a year old. It is very critical in the tall inline-6 Merc for the impeller to be as strong as possible to keep water flow up to the top cylinder. Change the impeller every couple years - no joke.
Okay - let's see if the picture posts - GULP
Thom

Here is a picture of the Purolator Filter I installed, it has a manual valve that you use to switch tanks.

None handy but I will try to remember to scan some old photos.

I appreciate the advice. I had Valentines check the motor over carefully and the only thing they said that was needed was the cable harness. I realize the only way to make sure the impeller is good is to just replace the impeller. The water is pumping well.

I was told by the seller that the motor had only 10 hours since the last overhaul. So far theres nothing to suggest this is not accurate, but I will get some service quotes for the:

Carb rebuild
Oil Change
fuel pump inspection/rebuild
impeller replacement

Impeller is a must in your case - just not worth risking it IMHO.

I am not pleased with Valentines, but I am going to be patient and go back there one more time. I took the boat back on Saturday morning and the mechanic there worked on the carb settings and adjusted the idle. He said it was good to go, but he also added that if that did not fix the problem, he'd credit the work when I brought it back in.



Saturday was way way too windy in Colorado, so it was for the best perhaps that it was in the shop. Sunday, the sun in shining, the wind has died down a bit, at least enough to be manageable. Out we go, feeling optimistic, and the motor starts right up, great we think, we may actually get going today, and like the Millenium Falcon, I advance the throttle, and ....nothing. SAME DRATTED PROBLEM, and I am getting *THAT LOOK* from my boys and my wife, and I'm going, "Its not my fault!"

Meanwhile we are getting all the "Old pros" cruising by telling us its probably the fuel pump or the fuel diapham, or x, or y...Oh, and Valentines is lousy you need to try this other guy..."

SO, this is last at bat for Valentine's.

I paid them to inspect the boat/motor
I paid them to replace the corroded wiring harness
I paid them to fix the problem where it will idle fine, but not for any length of time, and not when we advance the throttle.

I mean, I trusted they have been doing a good job; they warned me about making sure that waves/wake don't wash into the exhast ports when we slow down to stop. When asked about the gear oil he reassures me that looked fine. Water pump is pumping fine...
BUT... if they can't get it fixed, I am going to have to start looking for a mechanic that specializes in the the older merc inline 6 motors.

Thankfully every time we have been able to idle our way back to the boat ramp, we have not have had to suffer the indignity of a tow to shore.

My sons have decided to let Mom and Dad work this out; when its working they'll get back with me and we can tow them on kneeboard/skiis, etc. But cleaning up the boat and prepping only to spend an hour or so impotenting cranking the motor, getting it to start/run for a couple minutes, and then die when we try to get going without pumping the primer bulb is getting old. I've got bruises on my shoulder from my wife slugging me for growling at the family and curtly telling them to lay out the fenders and prepare to dock... again.

Are you using an internal fuel tank mounted in the boat or remote fuel tanks?
If you are using an existing internal fuel tank be sure the fuel vent on the side of the hull is not clogged also be sure the pick-up in the tank is not clogged. Make sure your primer ball is good, connectors and clamps are in good order. Is the ball collapsing while you are trying to throttle up? Be sure any filters on the fuel system are new. If you are using remote fuel tanks be sure your cap vents are open.
I worked on a nice Merc 900 last year for a guy and after all the time and money he spent he spun on an old used water separating fuel canister on the filter holder and used the old gas that remained in his fuel tank and screwed up all the work I did for him. I told him to go with a new filter get rid of the old fuel but he got impatient and cheaped out on the filter.

Was the fuel pump diaphragm and valve kit replaced? By the intake side of the power head there is a small hose that runs from the top of the block down to the bottom of the block. Make sure it is not pinched or compromised in any way. If it is you need to fix it.
Try backing the idle screws on the carburetor out 1/8 of a turn then another 1/8 of a turn to see if you can gain power and speed getting her up on plane. What size prop are you using? Is the motor trying to grab too much water (too much load) as you are revving up causing it to bog on you?

You are either not getting enough fuel or getting too much fuel. Are the carbs wet and leaky from when you apply the throttle? Something is making you bog you while trying to get out of the hole.
Distributor or distributor-less ignition? Was the dwell set proper? Did the guy do a link and sync on the motor?

Also next time you go on a shake down bring a buddy not your family. Nothing will scare them or turn them off to boating faster then heading out and having nothing but problems.
Prepare a check list before you head out and let him run the boat and you check for the things I mentioned or let him check them. Stay around the ramp to perform your tests and if you start to notice some improvements then head out a bit more and work out the bugs. How they run at idle on the hose or in a tank is very different from how they do out on the water under a full load. Get yourself a Seloc or Clymer (even Mercury if you can find it) manual and get to know the set up and tuning procedures.

Hope this is helpful to you.
Jim

I suspect a clogged fuel system as he has already taken out a blocked filter Jim (he has 2 x on-board tanks). It should be distributor ignition on this year going by the decals I believe.

I think - give everything Jim has said a go, it all proper advice, if you are still having problems afterwards you are going to have to work through the fuel system from one end to the other i.e. tanks, lines, fuel pump & carbs. Also as Jim correctly says the carb synchronisation can make a big difference. I am sure all it needs is a good sort out, well worth it when it's done.

And don't forget that impeller - it may be pumping well now but for how long? You don't know how long it has been in there. If it fails at best you could end up with the waterways blocked with bits of impeller at worst you will have cooked it. Either way it is a lot of $$$$$'s, especially if you are paying someone to do the work.

Geoff UK

The boat has 2 installed fuel tanks, approximately 14 gallon capacity.

I don't know about the pick up, as for the vent I think it is clear, and the gas caps need new rubber seals so I don't think the fuel tanks are starving off.

Regarding the ball collapsing, I don't think it is; I took a turn the first go round and when I was squeezing the primer bulb to try and keep it running it seemed not to be the issue.

I don't know if the outboard motor's fuel filters need changing, but I think they are okay, as I paid to have the mechanic check the outboard and if they needed to be replaced I would have paid them to do it. I am thinking about a racor fuel water separator filter for the external fuel line, but I don't know if I would need to use that in place of the car filter that is in line with the two external fuel tanks.

I'm not trying to go cheap. I am a network engineer and I can afford to pay a professional to do this work. If I have free time, I restore pinball machines and build pc's and MAME cabinets from scratch, etc. I am not mechanically inclined. I want to find a mechanic I can trust, pay him to make the motor work, and then spend my weekends enjoying the boat. I'm okay with cleanup, basic repairs, and I may rewire the trailer lights because thats something I know, but carbs, rebuilding engines or pumps; no thank you.

I have not messed with the prop in any way. Its stock, and unless I find a major justification, I don't see spending a lot of time or money finding the perfect prop.

I don't know about the fuel pump diaphram, but it seems to me that the engine is not getting enough fuel. It will survive on what the primer bulb is feeding it, but with newer fuels, I am concerned that its no longer working optimally. I'm going to ask the mechanic to focus on thst when I take it back tonight. (Valentine's is closed Sunday and Mondays.) I doubt its a load issue; I mean we had 2-3 adults and 1-2 kids riding, but towing nothing, and there are pictures of this motor pulling a whole formation of skiers at Cypress Gardens. It was the biggest and best outboard Merc made in 1975.

I think its a standard distributor.

I don't know dwell, so I can only hope the mechanic set it right. I will ask, and find out what the timing/advance is set at too.

The only link and sync I know is with a USB cable or firewire, so I will have to ask the mechanic when I see him again.

Staying close to the ramp is what we have been doing, and getting outside the no-wake area so we can try accellerating. I can't seem to even get it to stay idling consitently for more than a few minutes. With a good quality fully charged battery I started hearing the starter cranking slightly slower, and I said, thats it, we are heading back to the dock.

I don't have any guy friends that I can haul out to the lake, maybe I can find a local support group like AA, or OMG (Old Merc Guys) that will lend me a second set of eyes. Frankly, my 12 year old son is very interested in learning anything with tools or engines (he built his own PC at 8, and he works the soldering iron with me on the pins). But my 15 year old just wants to ski. My wife loves the water so she has been very patient. We went shopping for her own matching life jacket, so she really wants to make this work too.

Mercury wrote back:

I would have an owner's manual ($24.95) and a service manual ($84.95) and a parts list ($17.95) available for purchase. I would only have them available in print form, not as a PDF.

Thank you,
Jessica
Customer Service Representative
Publications Department
(920) 929-5110
Mercury Marine

So, yeah, I need to drop $130 for documentation. But I wanted to get the motor working, first. When you are starting in the pinball hobby you are not supposed to buy a project pin as your first one. You get one that is shopped professionally and then learn by keeping it working, doing simple things like changing bulbs, replacing rubbers, and adjusting leaf switches.

Yes, I could just abandon this and spend $10k on a new motor, but I know that old motors properly maintained/serviced can work well (I have a 1977 Volvo 244 with over 230,000 miles.)

I just want to get it fixed, without telling them to just do a full overhaul/rebuild and waste money. But by the same token I have a finite amount of time to enjoy the boat, living in Colorado before its time to pull it out and winterize it.

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, please understand I really do appreciate it because this is not my area of expertise.

If you're a network engineer, build pc's and restore pinball machines, you ARE a mechanic! Just move on up to outboards, you will do just fine.

Frank

Just buy a clymer or seloc manual ($25 to $35) at your local marine shop off the rack you do not need to lay out $130 in documentation. I am a CCNA myself/cisco version 6 call mngr but prefer working on mercs. I got laid off from that dang IT job anyway.
You may need to turn out the idle valves on each carb 1/8 to 1/4 turn to see if that makes a change when you are trying to throttle up. That is what I was getting at under load. Not how the boat is loaded but the load the motor is under when the boat is in the water verses sitting on a trailer. I had to do this with a 1968 Glastron GT 160 I had and a 115 merc (Thx to Dr Frankenmerc who enriched my life with Merc knowledge and the required patience and endurance). If your son has an interest and you can do it safely then go for it keep him involved and excited to help. Nothing wrong with that.

make sure the guy did in fact change out any and all filters on the motor and en-route to the motor, be sure of the fuel pump valve and diaphragm kit replacement and the bleeder hose from the top of the block to the bottom is in good condition.
It is a process of elimination and it can be frustration at times but you may not be as far off as you think unless the guy you are going to is a dub. I am on the east coast but I do wish I could help.
If you can read a cisco manual you can read a merc manual.

Hang in there and good luck. Try putting her in around the ramp again and make the carb adjustments as I said or get the guy you paid to do it or come with you.

here is a link to youtube for a motor I just did over for a guy. Not the best vid clip but as you can hear before I let the boat go back to the guy I lake test it first so that I am positive the customer will have no issues once off the trailer and on their way out boating. Not everyone can or will do this but out of 10 people I service I do get 7 or 8 of them out for a trial before they get it back.

How do you get them motors to run sideways like that Jim?

Hey, those rams work great man, thank you VERY VERY much. You da man.

Splashing the 14T sometime this week Jim. Keep my merc in yer prayers woodcha? I'm a tad nervous, but maybe it'll pass...

Frank

Small internet; I'm a Cisco Call Manager / Unity / IPCC guy, I do the tier 1 support for Cricket's internal phone network. Thanks for the advice. I will print out notes and have the mechanic address them all. I had hoped beyond hope that the boat'd be ready for Memorial Day, but it seems like it'll be another 2 weeks before we get to run it again. (bills and other fun stuff have eaten thru my boat budget for now). So, I think I will go ahead and get the impeller replaced at the same time, this time it goes in, to avoid any painful surprises later.
I'll grab the Manuals and start reading up.

So, when you say you are testing the boat do you just leave it on the trailer strapped down, get it into the water so the pumps are running, and then test/adjust?

I will ask the mechanic if he can do a trial run this next time before I pick it back up again. I did get some names and numbers of other mechanics in the area, so if this go-round results in a fail, I've got some people to contact. One gent driving a drag boat at the Cherry Creek reservoir had looked at the boat I bought and was interested in the details of how the motor and everything else had worked out. I guess I bought the one that got away for him, or perhaps the one he let go away...

no I drop off the trailer and go for a spin until I am satisfied.

i put one of those water seperaters on me 4cyl 85 and it would not pump thru with the factory fuel pump even thou it is a new diaphram kit and check valves. runs great with out it.

dave bernard wrote:

i put one of those water seperaters on me 4cyl 85 and it would not pump thru with the factory fuel pump even thou it is a new diaphram kit and check valves. runs great with out it.

Something else is wrong then...

I run fuel\water separator filters on all my motors, 35HP and up and they work with no issues. Maybe you have a plugged fitting\line\filter?

I suspect it could be "junk in the trunk", ie, the fixed tanks may be full of varnish and other stuff. So what happens when you are on the water is that that stuff get's stirred up and clogs the fuel lines.

Just my pc-minded troubleshooting wild ass guess.

No brand new x2, 6 gallon tank fuel line. vnt open tryed with the cap off still no good. by passed the filter it was fine.not sucking air any where.

What brand/model where you using Dave? The Racor unit works great on mine. (120 series made for marine applications.) Got the primer bulb between the tank and the separator, takes about ten pumps on the bulb to fill the filter and bowl from dry. Then thru the splashwell up to the fuel pump on the motor.

(The units without a clear bowl didn't make any sense to me, how can you tell if it fills up with water?)

I've been told it's NOT a good idea to run automotive filters, as they can filter the oil out of the gas!? Don't know if it's accurate, just passing along what I was told.

boat is not here but it is a clear bottom and a marine outboard version.dont remember the brand.i will try to find out.

After reviewing the posts I would agree with what g3jim stated early on - open the idle jets.
If the beast is idling fine in the lake, goes into gear and continues to idle fine, but when you try to acellerate, whether quickly or gently the motor stalls,...the idle jets are set too lean.
These beasts do not have an acellerator pump and are dependent on extra fuel slobber to be laying around in the crankcase so that there is amble fuel getting sucked to the cylinders initially when the butterflies are opened and a lot of air rushes in.
Note where the idle jet setting are now by carefully counting turns as you turn each jet clockwise until it is gently seated (closed), then open the jects by going counter-clockwise while counting the turns. Once you have returned to the original setting - continue counter-clockwise 1/8 of a turn.
Do this on all three carbs.
Start the beast and see if she will acellerate without stalling out.
If not repeat the process by adding 1/8 turn counter-clockwise to all three idle jets and try to acellerate again.
After doing this 2-3 times you should start to see a noted difference in off idle acelleration.
Thom

my filter is a moehler.

I'm not a motor expert like these other guys, but if it were me, I would try the most obvious thing first.

Get yourself a portable tank with good clean gas and see if that helps.

Oh, and your gonna need to eventually get your hands dirty a little. You may not want to get into the impeller replacement yourself just yet, but the carbs and fuel pump are a breeze. Leave the synchronizing up to a Merc. pro. Not sure if your current mechanic is the right guy for the job, it's a pretty specialized thing.

Just my $.02

I sawed the old plastic filter open. Yugh. The inside was so varnished and yellow, and the filter was filthy. Its a good guess how long it had been since the last swap out. I'll keep a spare handy, I'm hoping my siphoning, fresh fuel, and filter swap will solve the fuel flow problem.

With all due respect to everyone trying to help here and you as well, Amigoid, until the carbs and fuel pumps are cleaned out and refreshed with new gaskets, diaphragms, filters, (rebuild kits), I don't believe this problem can be "adjusted" away or flushed out with fresh gas. If the old fuel filter was in that bad of a condition, the rest of the fuel system needs a thorough teardown inspection at the very least. I'd be willing to bet that the carbs and fuel pump were left with the same varnished gas in them, and I don't see any mention of that being addressed yet. I don't know the mechanic(s) you're (at Valentine's?) using, but it sure sounds to me like he (they) are not covering the basics here.

We ALL want you to be able to go out and enjoy your boat as soon and as safe as possible, while spending as little $ as you can to do so. I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone, I just don't want to see Amigoid score a piston or cylinder ruining this motor by trying to run it on less than sufficient amounts of gas/oil. Try the idle mix adjustments as described by the knowledgeable mechanics above, but if that doesn't fix it, please consider listening to the "old guys at the lake" and finding another mechanic. I'll shut up now.

cc1000 wrote:

I'm not a motor expert like these other guys, but if it were me, I would try the most obvious thing first.

Get yourself a portable tank with good clean gas and see if that helps.

Oh, and your gonna need to eventually get your hands dirty a little. You may not want to get into the impeller replacement yourself just yet, but the carbs and fuel pump are a breeze. Leave the synchronizing up to a Merc. pro. Not sure if your current mechanic is the right guy for the job, it's a pretty specialized thing.

Just my $.02

Of course, please do use the proper oil mix in the gas to avoid scoring the cylinders.

The logic behind this advise is to simply try the easiest thing first.

By eliminating the possibly dirty tanks and possibly bad gas and pickups, you are eliminating half the problems, possibly getting you on the lake that much sooner.

Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor[1]) is the meta-theoretical principle that "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" (entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem) and the conclusion thereof, that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

MarkS wrote:

I sawed the old plastic filter open. Yugh. The inside was so varnished and yellow, and the filter was filthy. Its a good guess how long it had been since the last swap out. I'll keep a spare handy, I'm hoping my siphoning, fresh fuel, and filter swap will solve the fuel flow problem.

With all due respect to everyone trying to help here and you as well, Amigoid, until the carbs and fuel pumps are cleaned out and refreshed with new gaskets, diaphragms, filters, (rebuild kits), I don't believe this problem can be "adjusted" away or flushed out with fresh gas. If the old fuel filter was in that bad of a condition, the rest of the fuel system needs a thorough teardown inspection at the very least. I'd be willing to bet that the carbs and fuel pump were left with the same varnished gas in them, and I don't see any mention of that being addressed yet. I don't know the mechanic(s) you're (at Valentine's?) using, but it sure sounds to me like he (they) are not covering the basics here.

We ALL want you to be able to go out and enjoy your boat as soon and as safe as possible, while spending as little $ as you can to do so. I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone, I just don't want to see Amigoid score a piston or cylinder ruining this motor by trying to run it on less than sufficient amounts of gas/oil. Try the idle mix adjustments as described by the knowledgeable mechanics above, but if that doesn't fix it, please consider listening to the "old guys at the lake" and finding another mechanic. I'll shut up now.

That's my take on it as well, no offence to anyone meant. The separate tank is a good idea to try.

I agree completely. I have sent it back to Valentines, with instructions to replace the impeller, recheck the carbs and also check the condition of the fuel pump including the check vales and diaphram and replace if needed.

While I did not flatly state that it is their last chance to do it right, I did imply it.

One of the first things i did when i brought the boat home was siphon out the old gas from both tanks. I had the boat tilted to make sure I got it all, and the gas looked and smelled clean and in hindsight like the new gas I added. If there was any old gas, its long since gone. I poured a lot of the old gas in my Volvo, its been running fine.
The seller told me he winterized the engine and I think he mentioned putting stabilizer in the gas, but I took no chances.

As for the rest, we are past the point of trying to do this without getting into expensive engine work. I have told them I want the engine working, and they need to do whats nessasary to get to that.

I'm taking the group's advice and will get a water pressure gauge, and get the tach working.

carbs overhaul thats where my money would go

If there was varnished fuel filters in my mind it most likely is the same in the carbs, somewhere & I wouldnt want to assume it was clean
on the contrary I would think there is varnish & crap in there for certain

hope it gets worked out for you before the weekend

MadProps wrote:

carbs overhaul thats where my money would go

If there was varnished fuel filters in my mind it most likely is the same in the carbs, somewhere & I wouldnt want to assume it was clean
on the contrary I would think there is varnish & crap in there for certain

hope it gets worked out for you before the weekend

Normally I would go there too, but with all the bad gas that is going around...I'm just sayin'.

Definitely worth the overhaul too, but never hurts to try the easy solution.

Great news, the mechanic is sure found the problem!

It was a combination of problems. The lowest carb was leaking, and the fuel pump had a tear in the diaphram. He rebuilt it and fixed a broken check valve in the squeeze bulb. Due to the large number of last minute boaters he can't do a check run with me until next week but in the meantime I'm going to pick up the boat and try once again this weekend. If this fails, it goes back for a full overhaul and a check ride.

Boy Lawrence, that's great. Sounds like he did a thorough check. I hope it works out for you.

I'm nervous about taking my boat out for the 1st time this weekend too. Oh well, gotta be a 1st time for everything I guess.

Best of luck, and have a great Memorial Day weekend!

Frank

it is amazing how bad a 4.95 cent diaphragm kit will ruin your day.
good luck with it.
Jim

it is amazing how bad a 4.95 cent diaphragm kit will ruin your day.

Thats what she said!
(rimshot!)

To quote Dusty from the movie Twister:
"DOROTHY'S FLYING BABAY! WHOOOOOOO!"

The motor started briskly. It idled well, and except for a couple of early stalls when we opened up the throttle, it finally accellerated like we expected it to.

Unsure if the speedo can be trusted, but it said we were doing 35.

There is still some problems at WOT but I will take the mechanic out next week to fine tune it. We are taking it out this weekend for more runs tomorrow evening and maybe kneeboarding on Saturday.

The diapham had 3-4 cracks in places. I can post a pic if you are interested.