TOPIC: Boat moves!

Frank,
When you dropped the lower unit at any time did the shift shaft get stuck in the upper shift shaft coming down from the bottom motor cowl?
If not......
Put the shifter in neutral..... drop the lower unit again with the shifter in neutral.....find neutral on the gear foot (try not to rotate your drive shaft) having someone spin the prop shaft as you find neutral in between forward and reverse.....then put the gear foot back in place in neutral.
As long as the shift shaft in the gear foot did not get pulled upward and come out of position from being stuck in the upper shift shaft when you first took it off the intermediate housing you should be OK "but".......... if the e-clip popped off shift shaft under the shift shaft seal and it came out of position you will need to find another lower to use or take this one down to re set everything.

my 2 cents for a last ditch effort

Hey Jim!

Thanks for the advice buddy. I'll give that a try a little later today. The shift shaft never moved, other than obviously around its rotation to screw me up! I just want to wait till I get some help. Mama's gone and Gregg is napping. I just may do the same thing, as I've lost plenty of sleep over the last couple days between this boat (and motor) and my old Aveo I'm getting the motor replaced in for one of the kids. I understand what you're getting at and will give it a try. Nothing to lose!

Thanks again.

Frank

hey frank...now you got a DOCKBUSTER!!!

That's eggsackly right Ron!

Frank

Did somebody say Dock Buster???????

Yeah, can only get it in forward with a top speed of 8! At least I had my GPS...

Frank

Frank, even though your motor is going forward, your control thinks it is in reverse and it will not go any faster. You have to pull that lower end again and set it in forward gear. Then re assemble with the control cables disconnected. One thing that I found useful is to preload the prop with a bungee cord when it is in forward, it will prevent it from dropping out of gear when you are fiddling with the shift shaft to get it lined up. Once it is back together you can re connect the shift cable and adjust as required. Hang in there. You have one more day of long weekend left.

Frank, dude, I wish ya luck man you deserve it. I've been following your posts and you REALLY deserve a break.

Daveswaves wrote:

Frank, even though your motor is going forward, your control thinks it is in reverse and it will not go any faster. You have to pull that lower end again and set it in forward gear. Then re assemble with the control cables disconnected. One thing that I found useful is to preload the prop with a bungee cord when it is in forward, it will prevent it from dropping out of gear when you are fiddling with the shift shaft to get it lined up. Once it is back together you can re connect the shift cable and adjust as required. Hang in there. You have one more day of long weekend left.

Thanks for the suggestion Dave, lemme see if I can figure this out. I got two exact same lower units and both the shift shafts act the same. I basically can't seem to figure this out, so I have all my merc manuals on the table behind me (pre-65, 65-74, and Glenn's book on mercs), and am going diving this morning to see what pearls I can find in that wonderful merc literature. Got a fresh pot of coffee and a very quiet house.

I played with this for hours yesterday to no avail. Jim Melanson called me offering assistance, and I called him a number of times while screwing around with this. Jim seemed to think I have the LU over-cammed, but my parts motor LU shift shaft acts the same exact way, so I'm completely befuddled. If I could work with someone who's done this before I'd get it, but I guess I'm not intelligent enough to get it just from explanations.

I like the idea of the bungee cord, but can't picture how I'd do that.

Like DelRay says, I deserve a BREAK! If nothing else, I have a good attitude about it. We've been so busy trying to figure this out I haven't got any good shots of her sitting at dock. Man o man, she looks fast just sitting still. Her nose sits up in the air a bit and she looks like a cat getting ready to POUNCE! I can't wait to get this shift thing figured out. On the positive side, when we were out yesterday, even though we weren't going fast, the boat came back to dock absolutely dry inside. I figured she would, but that's always a good thing on 1st launch!

Thanks to all of you for you support, help and assistance. I really appreciate it. Of course, if I get lucky here, you'll all know about it...

Frank

Morning Frank

Got a fresh pot of coffee and a very quiet house.

That's a wonderful thing. Wish you much success on this, I really wanna see a big smile on your face!

Well Frank inquiring minds want to know ! after our phone conversation this morning does it shift now ? Dont make me have to come over there and fix it ! (wink)

I will bet if someone can get over there with a fresh pair of eyes he'd be boating in no time. I am 3 to 4 hours away so I am out. I did offer to meet at a half way point with a working gear foot for him but that is tough to do time wise.


I am praying to the Merc Gods that someone can get there and offer some help.

Jim

Well Jim, I was able to get it into neutral, forward and reverse.

King Dave (Cummings) emailed me this morning, gave me a picture reference in the 65-74 manual and told me to call him. It's kinda funny, I had just dragged all my manuals upstairs to review them. The pre-65 manual was useless, while the later one is great. We talked a while, and to make a long story short, because of my concern of damaging the shift shaft splines with pliers or vice grips, Dave suggested I pull the female shift shaft out of my parts motor and use it to turn the shift shaft (see pic). Man, that worked like a charm! So we got forward, neutral and reverse, and off to the river we go. We didn't do very well. Motor would die, wouldn't start, then would start and go to 4000 rpm. So off we come home. I call Dave to let him know how weird the motor acted, and the first thing he asked me was "Was the tank vented?" Duh. Nope.

So we'll be off again later to see what sort of a difference that makes soon as my brand new group 27 starting/deep cycle battery is charged up. We pretty much ran it dry during our brief time out.

Live and learn?

Frank

Frank Muphy has got you. First law of Muphy is if anything can go wrong it will.
You can't win till you find a new home for Muphy.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Tell me about it. Now, when it starts at all, it's at 4-5000 rpm!

Frank

when you start it do you have the throttle cable connected? If so disconnect it. Check to be sure everything is in idle position. Seems like your carb butterflies are open and the spark is advanced.


it is easy when you are hard troubleshooting something to over look something else that is simple. Take a breather and then take another look. It has to be something simple Frank you had it running good before.

I took the control cables off Jim, pulled the control box, took it apart to make sure the control box cable ends were okay. Check. Have not re-installed the control box.

Dave Bernard gave me a call earlier, and maybe hit on something. I think the shift shaft pushed up into the lower carb today when we pulled and re-installed the LU at the boat launch after we launched and couldn't get in gear. Motor ran fine at that point, just no gears. I called Dave Cummings and he suggested maybe the LU shift shaft was not mating with the one coming down from the mid-section, and to check that first. I had brought the few tools necessary to drop the LU, so we did, and made sure on re-install that those two shafts mated. That's when the trouble began, though not right away.

Anyways, Dave Bernard said that the shift shaft may have hit the bottom of the carb and either damaged it so the butterfly remained open, or put some sort of pressure on it so it was open when it shouldn't be. there was no question the shaft was up into the bottom of the carb. I tapped the mid-section shift shaft down with a long screwdriver and light hammer.

I've quit for now. I'm letting the battery get up to charge before I start playing again.

Suffice it to say the merc gods are not smiling down on me.

Frank

Gee frank I guess Im going to have to head across the river and chase your buddy Murphy away ! Anybody know how much field trip service house calls are worth ? sorry buddy only kidding ... I guess its possible that the shift rod has come up and interfered with the throttle linkage and if it moved up thats why you had no shifting when you dunked it .......

I should have dragged it closer to a launch you could have got to easy Dave, but I was so sure I was gonna be okay. Three strikes and out I guess.

I'm gonna play with it tonight (if I can get my nerve up) and see if it works okay, or is still screwed up. If it works okay now, we'll see if it even goes into gear. I'm worried I tore the LU gears apart shifting at 4-5000 rpm.

I could also drag it over to your place, but this is a crazy week, and I'll be working late tonight and tomorrow night. Not too late, but I probably won't be home till 5:30 or so today, maybe 6:00 or after tomorrow.

I sure do appreciate all the help Dave. I'll keep ya posted.

Frank

Frank
Haven't been hanging around lately, so 1, was glad to see you got her wet, 2 am dishearted, as I'm sure you are, the motor is not functioning properly.
Looking forward to hearing a success story from you soon.
Hopefully, those who have offered to help, will continue to do so until you have reached the goal! I know it has been a long road for you ...
best to ya
lar

Thanks Lar, but I am NOT expecting any success stories soon. I can't even get the motor to start now. I haven't had a stitch of trouble with it since Dave Cummings helped me rebuild it. I took it upon myself to change the impeller belfoe I went boating and now I can't even start it. So I'm kicking myself continually. All this time and effort into the boat and the motor, all for nothing because I was so stupid. Well, that's not true, I have a decent looking (not great) speedboat now with a trolling motor. I can't afford another motor, so I'm not exactly sure what to do.

Frank

Well worst case you are welcome to stop by the store are we'll throw my spare 650 on it.

Sure beats a trolling motor.

But I have a feeling you'll get it straightened out by then.

Thanks Dave, but the way I feel right now, just swapping motors will somehow kill yer 650!

Sheeesh.

Frank

EGBAR, Frank. (Everything's Gonna Be All Right) If you don't get it straightened out by this weekend, I'm sure somebody at the meet will be able to assist. I know you'd much rather have it ship shape before then, but it sounds like there'll be some help there. (I've also heard somebody has a hit contract out on Murphy for ya buddy!) Hang in there......

Checked the timing belt this a.m., check, not broke, and I never moved it since re-assembling the motor last summer. Checked spark, got it in both coils (checked #2 & #3 plugs). Gotta pull the LU again, forgot to put the o-ring up top, got all new stainless 7/16 fine nyloks to replace the decades old shot ones that are on it. Will make sure it's in neutral. Getting a new fuel bulb today too, old one feels like mush, and MAY (doubtful) be the problem.

The only other thing that changed was the fuel mix. I got 91 or 92 octane, and mixed it 50:1 with synthetic 2 cycle marine oil.

What else can I check? I tore the control box apart to make sure the cables were okay, and they were. I think maybe I just screwed it up good on the river and it's shot. I'm at a loss.

Frank

After some thought, here's what I come up with:

1. Fuel bulb feels mushy. For what they cost, I'm getting a new one today. I'll install it, set it to fast idle (again) and see if that does it. I doubt it, but maybe.

2. Maybe shifting into gear at 4500 rpm threw the shift shaft off and it won't start cause it's in forward or reverse? I'm going to pull the LU and just check. I forgot to put that o-ring back up top on the drive-shaft anyways.

3. For some reason, switching from heavy ratio (more oil) of fuel mix with 87 octane, for my first boat ride I up upgraded to 92 octane and a 50:1 mix with synthetic 2 cycle oil.

4. I toasted the powerhead when it was running at 4500 rpm and I didn't have the fuel vent open. Starved for oil, it seized and I'm screwed.

Any thoughts?

Frank

Frank:

I have been reading the posts and feel bad, been there done that! Its a hard thing to work on something so hard and then it all seems to fall apart in the end. Don't give up Frank, with some help you can get through this.

With the lower unit I would pull it off and make sure the shift shaft can not be moved up and down while in the housing. If it can be lifted with out removing the shift shaft nut, then the retaining clip is missing, and could be causing the problem for you. I know other people have told you to put in to neutral and then put it back together, I am sorry to say I have had more luck making sure they are in forward gear, just touching the neutral gear detent. What I mean by this is find forward, then turn counter clock wise until you just start to feel the detent. Also make sure the shift lever is fully back in postion and the spring clip is in postion at the top of the shift shaft. When installing the lower unit the drive shaft will be going in the block first stop at that point and make sure the shift shaft, upper & lower, is matching up, I use a small screw driver to move the shift shaft around to make sure it is matching up. Then when this is all done make sure the shift lever and the throttle lever is aligned as the book calls for.

As far as the running, if you can turn the motor over now chances are you did not do any damage. I know what you are saying about hte gas oil mixture, but that is not the first place I would go. They may not run well with the wrong mix or different gas or cheap gas, but they normally do run. I would go to the ignition system. I know you are saying you are getting spark, but is it sparking at the correct time, is the spark strong at the plugs. Was the points set properly, was the motor timmed properly. I am not questioning yours or someones capabilties, I have put many these motors together and found out that I either forgot something, or something changed, or did not do it correctly. Easly done. I also have had points set properly and time up great, then found out the motor was running on only one side, replace the point set and did fine. Recently I found a bad dist cap, could not find any cracks nothing, but was causing a mis in the motor. Go to the easy places first with ignition then go else were.

If I can help please call me. Good luck!

Darrell

Great suggestions all Darrell, thanks!

The mid-section shift shaft definitely moves. Once at the boat launch over the weekend I put the boat in and couldn't get anything but neutral. I pulled the boat, trimmed the motor down and had gears. So my mid section shift shaft moves. How can I stop that?

I can put it back in in forward as you suggest. I need to pull the LU anyways, as I forgot to put the o-ring up top last time.

Now that you mention spark, it seemed to me this a.m. a bit after 5 that #2 was strong, #3 was weak, but I had spark both places.

I believe the points and timing were set correctly three years ago by Tim Calmes, over in Perry, NY. I have not had any problem with this motor until I changed the impeller and tried to go boating.

We'll see where I get with it tonight, if I get home at a decent time.

Frank

Frank on the motor itself other than the Small Mercury Switch (it will stop the motor from starting in a tilted position from what I understand) which you do not have anyway, the only thing that will kill the spark is the safety switch inside the control box up by your steering wheel if the shift lever is not straight up and down. THAT IS NOT THE CASE SINCE YOU HAVE SPARK so don't touch it. There is no safety kill switch on the motor regarding if it is in gear or not. Put volts to the coils and starter and she will go.....
You have spark, your primer bulb may be the culprit. Just don't go tearing into things today. Start with the primer bulb be sure your fuel tank vents are open and you have good clamps on the hose around the primer bulb. Do this BEFORE you drop that lower unit again bud. Get it running and shifting on the hose first then go to the next step if you need to.
Missing that o-ring is not going to kill you over the weekend.
Deep Breath.....Slow Down.....c'mon now I will breathe with you bud here we go (yea I can't figure out how to spell breathing action in words but you get the idea). Just take your time and begin with the simple steps is all I am saying.

My sister in law passed around 1 AM this morning. I know I said I would be out of pocket for a bit but I am addicted to these message boards it is simply a great community of folks out here. The kicker to all this is last night around 10 PM or so my father in law who was hospitalized for 7 months is back in with a blood clot in his lung. My in-laws can't seem to get a break.

You are going to go for a boat ride this weekend in the Power Cat at Silver Lake Frank I can feel it coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that is with the 1963 Merc 1000 not a trolling motor.

icouldn't agree more jim. the help around here is absolutely astonishing. i installed a new axle and hubs on my trailer last year . couldn't of done it without the folks at fiberglassics. frank deserves all the help he can get to fix this problem. he is so giving of himself. he emailed this morning and offered to install the trailer hitch on our malibu. can you imagine that with all he is going thru now. quite a guy. ron

g3jim wrote:

Frank on the motor itself other than the Small Mercury Switch (it will stop the motor from starting in a tilted position from what I understand) which you do not have anyway, the only thing that will kill the spark is the safety switch inside the control box up by your steering wheel if the shift lever is not straight up and down. THAT IS NOT THE CASE SINCE YOU HAVE SPARK so don't touch it. There is no safety kill switch on the motor regarding if it is in gear or not. Put volts to the coils and starter and she will go.....
You have spark, your primer bulb may be the culprit. Just don't go tearing into things today. Start with the primer bulb be sure your fuel tank vents are open and you have good clamps on the hose around the primer bulb. Do this BEFORE you drop that lower unit again bud. Get it running and shifting on the hose first then go to the next step if you need to.
Missing that o-ring is not going to kill you over the weekend.
Deep Breath.....Slow Down.....c'mon now I will breathe with you bud here we go (yea I can't figure out how to spell breathing action in words but you get the idea). Just take your time and begin with the simple steps is all I am saying.

My sister in law passed around 1 AM this morning. I know I said I would be out of pocket for a bit but I am addicted to these message boards it is simply a great community of folks out here. The kicker to all this is last night around 10 PM or so my father in law who was hospitalized for 7 months is back in with a blood clot in his lung. My in-laws can't seem to get a break.

You are going to go for a boat ride this weekend in the Power Cat at Silver Lake Frank I can feel it coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that is with the 1963 Merc 1000 not a trolling motor.

Sorry to hear about your sister-in-law Jim. That is the kind of thing that we can all take a breath on and just be thankful we're alive. As far as I'm concerned, the boat is not important, nor is my hot rod. Health, and the good health of those you love means one heck of a lot more to me than material possessions.

Having said that, my plan is to install the new primer bulb first Jim, no question. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna check compression on the motor. That won't hurt anything and maybe give me more info (maybe more than I want...), and if nothing works I'll leave it together and take it to Silver Lake the way it is.

Thanks for the help, I sure appreciate you, and everybody pitching in here. What a great group of folks!

Frank

Frank,
It is a pleasure to be here and I do hope I am helpful!!!!

Off to the lake. Hopefully I will have tackled this one issue I am working on. Wish me luck

FRANK!!!
You are killing me with the problems. I'm about ready to drive 1000 miles to help ya. If I had the time and gas I think I would! Like Jim said just sit back, relax, cold glass of ice tea and just start from the top. Kinda been waiting for DrFrankenmerc to chime in "HE BE The MAN" on the mercs. JIM very sorry to hear about your loss in the family.
GOOD LUCK,
Pete

Geez Pete, you think I'm killing you with these problems?!? It's about done me in.

I post this stuff for a couple reason. First, maybe it will help me out. 2nd, maybe it will help somebody else out. 3rd, it's atonement for my sins.

Maybe tonight I'll try a new fuel bulb, and if no luck there, try some compression readings. I don't think I'm going to get much done tonight anyways by the time I get out of work. Long busy day.

Frank

Frank,
I hope I didn't offend you I was just trying to lighten things up a little for ya!
Best of luck!
Pete

You didn't offend me at all Pete. I laughed out loud when I read yer post! This is all in good humor. If I've said it once, I've said it a zillion times. This boat is not that important. My wife and kids are more important, and along those lines, I got major "stuff" going on this week besides the boat. The boat will resolve itself eventually. Friday morning we'll haul it more than 1/2 way across the state for an informal FG meet. If I haven't figured it out by then, maybe a bunch of us can figure it out this weekend. If not, there's always the rest of June!

Frank

make sure you take your tools Frank.

Yep!

frank, since i'm taking the truck i'll have a bunch of tools too. my dialysis has been changed to 5:00fri. afternoon so i'll be at the cottage till 3:30, and be back around 10:00. really messes up my day.
oh well.......

Frank there are a bunch of adjustments you might need to do where everything allignment wise has been disrupted by complete disassembly.
First a question, are you able to move the shift lever all the way forward to where the lever is at least parallel to the floor or does it stop before then? If throttle does not advance than it may be a sign that the high idle shift lock out is misadjusted which is too hard to explain here. The manual does explain it although generally this never needs touching as long as it is still at factory adjustment.
Anyways, on the early GearShift motors it is easiest to do all this with the cables disconnected from the motor, the lower in Neutral which detents in the lower unit.
The shift shaft on the motor also has a neutral detent, look under the bottom carb, there is a cresent shaped arm with a groove that a spring clicks into make sure the spring is clicked into the center groove if there is more than one groove. We will worry about connecting the control cables and getting those adjusted later.
In the lower unit there is a reverse and neutral locking mechanism so the motor does not tilt up when put in reverse. Rather than explain here make sure those pieces are correctly placed by looking at pictures in the manual. There is also a thread spool shaped piece of plastic that slides over the shift shaft splined sleeve at the bottom of the driveshaft housing, I use grease to hold this in place, this spool is what pushs up on the hook mechanism on the clamp bracket that grabs the tilt pin to keep motor from tilting up in reverse. Just make sure all those parts are there and installed correctly.
You need to understand that when the lower slides on three things are lining up, the driveshaft splines, the shift shaft splines and the water tube. the watertube is the easiest as it has the long white guide tube to facilitate that going into place. Just make sure the rubber grommet in the waterpump housing is there and oiled so the tube will slip in and seal. The driveshaft splines will not engage into the crank if the clock position is off. Sometimes you need to rotate the crank when installing. I find it easiest to remove the plugs and the top cowl so I can rotate the flywheel just a smidge to try and get the splines clocked. Lastly the shift shaft splines need to be clocked, you can do this by wiggling the lever on the side of the motor corresponding the the shift. You apply up pressure on the lower unit till the shift lines up then wiggle the crank till the drive splines line up. When all goes up in, if the lower is in neutral the shift shaft should be detented in neutral also. You should be able to snap the shift lever into forward and neutral and reverse although sometimes it jams because the parts are not rotating as they would when motor is idling, so turning the crack helps when moving the shift lever on the motor. Neutrl prop spins freely, forwward prop will "click" when rotated and in reverse it will rotate slightly in each direction hitting a hard stop. The shift dogs for reverse and forward are different internal to the lower hence the difference. Motor whould tilt up freely in forward but when shifted into neutral or reverse it should not tilt up.
If all this is OK then time to install the cables. Shift motor into neutral, listen for the detent, spin prop freely to check. Move driver control lever to neutral this has yet another neutral detent click. Now thread the barrel on the motor end of the cable to line up the fixed mount cable end and the lever stem that the barrel slides onto so the cable matches the spacing on the motor. the throttle cable should be adjusted the same way except the length should match the fixed mount to the throttle lever stem WHEN THE DISTRIBUTOR IS AGAINST THE IDLE STOP SCREW on that front plate with the three screws near the distributor. This insures the throttle forces the distributor to sit against that stop screw, a slight preload is OK, to much will be hard shifting. If you need ot adjust the idle stop screw then the cable will need to be readjusted too maintaining correct slight preload.
I hope this helps some, it's hard to explain in words. I have mastered both the Pre 64 and post 64 setups for this proceedure, it's a little different for each. Once set up the lower can be dropped for impellor service and reinstalled easily if NOTHING is disturbed when replaceing the impellor.
Good luck,
Randy