TOPIC: Bench top Ignition system

For quite sometime, off and on (more off) I've been toying around with a custom ignition system for my '63 1000 using a Pertronix Ignitor II setup. More on that soon in a separate thread.

I installed the customer distributor and got.... nothing. Standing there thinking about it it occurred to me I should really bench test the new distributor first before trying to work out the mystery of timing it.

So I set up this little test bed using the stock distributor. Note the ignition switch to the far left. I attach a drill to the distrib shaft, switch on, spin the drill and watch the sparks. I'll change in the Custom Distrib and see if it works.

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I like it. Was thinking about something like that to test the DB. dist. Skip.

I should mention that that light bulb you see in the close up of the spark plug mount is no longer in the system. it was between the distrib and the coil and was intended to visually confirm I had a successful circuit (it was cool to watch it flash as I spun the distrib). However with that in place the system would not generate a spark. I assume because the bulb, with it's itty bitty filament, limited the amount of current getting to the coil, thus creating an insufficient primary voltage.

Also note that I am using the Pertonix Coil, which is internally resisted. If you use a coil that is not (such as a vintage merc coil) you would have to add a resistor to the circuit between (I think) the distrib and the coil.

Yep, after looking at your model there I kinda figured that the lite would not be useful. I Know what you mean about the resistor. Kinda figured that one out years ago. Skip.

Did you use the heavy ground cable just be cause it was handy and the right length? If not, it isn't necessary to use a heavy lead. The spark is high tension, not high current. Because of this, an heavy path to ground isn't necessary or of any advantage. A ground with bailing wire would work just as well.

How is the Pertronix disto doing? I'm going to start working on a new magnet array for the merc shaft, and I'm also going to chuck a shaft up in the lathe to do some modding. Been too busy to spend any time on it.

Hey Bruce,
Actually, I was unsure if a heavy lead back to the battery from the spark plug was needed, and since I had one handy and a convenient length I used that. So thanks for the info.

The Pertronix Distributor is ready for bench testing - I just have not had the time. Hoping to test it this weekend at the latest.

Thought I would post a couple of teaser videos from the bench top ignition system. I am working on a summary of the Pertronix project for another thread,

A video running a stock points set up (one set only)



And here I am running the Pertronix set up. This is the first time I got it to work! Previous attempts on the motor failed as I had it wired as you would a conventional breaker point set up, which is incorrect.



Keep in mind that this set up fires the plug 6 times a revolution vs one. So when I "step on the gas" it is firing so fast and so hot it created (what looks like) a standing arc. Way cool.

Couple cool vids!

With the basic wiring figured out, the next step in the Pertronix bench top test bed set up was to get it to fire on all six 'cylinders'. I mounted six plugs by drilling some slightly undersized holes in thin soft wood. Then threaded the plugs in. The plugs tapped them selves into the wood. Just before the plug was snugged down, I laid some bare 14 gauge wire in between the plug and the wood such that when I tightened the plug the rest of the way it captured the wire, creating a snug connection that then leads back to the (-) on the battery.



What is needed is for the Pertronix module to trigger just as the rotor tang is passing in front of a contact on the distributor cap. Otherwise the surge that would otherwise fire a plug has nowhere to go. So what I need is for a magnet to be aligned with the Pertronix Ignitor module's sensor (which will cause it to trigger) at the same moment the rotor tang is aligned with a pick up on the cap.

So I marked the outside of the distributor cap to indicate where the #3 contact is (the '63 100hp's are timed off of #3, not #1), and then transferred that to the body of the distributor. Then, with the cap off, I installed the rotor and rotated it (and thus the shaft) until the top tang on the rotor was aligned with the mark on the distributor body. I placed alignment marks on the distrib shaft and body to capture that position as the next step requires the rotor and ring to come of and I need to make sure the shaft doesn't move.

Next I lifted off the rotor and magnetic ring, then re-installed the magnet ring with a magnet directly in front of the ingnitor module's sensor ( I had previously marked the location of a magnet on the ring with a white dot). Then re-installed the rotor. So now a magnet is directly in front of the sensor and the rotor is pointed at the #3 cylinder contact. Installed the cap, then installed the entire Distributor assembly onto the test bed.



I needed to figure out a way to attach my drill to the distrib shaft so as to be able to spin the distributor, which was easy using an old socket packed with putty and an adapter I made of wood.

Hooked the drill up, switch on, and watched the sparks! I've included two links to the same video. Not sure which will work best. On my PC/wireless network the video lags alot.

s172.photobucket.com/user/thegammas/media/benchtop6plugsvid_zps650e515b.mp4.html



Now, to time the beast..... I have a plan

Nice work - you have made a lot of progress. Now it pretty much looks like you are ready to give it a go. When I timed the magnet ring on the Evinrude distributor, I actually mounted the assembly onto the engine and checked the trigger (magnet ring) orientation with a degree wheel and the flywheel timing marks. I had to move the trigger ahead a few degrees of where I thought it should be. It turns out the the magnets in the ring were actually triggering the sensor a couple degrees AFTER passing the center-line of the pickup. Since the timing can be adjusted a lot on any of these engines, they are pretty forgiving. I know that you did a static alignment of the magnet ring to the location of the rotor on the distributor body. But you should do a powered-up test of this too. You want to be certain that the trigger is actually firing when you want it to, and the only way to do that is to confirm that it releases a spark when the rotor tip is in alignment with the mark you put on the body. Maybe you already checked this relationship with it powered up, but if not, I think it would be a good idea to check. Congratulations on your success so far!

hey Bruce, thanks for the input, especially on the 'late' trigger effect.

yes my next step is to install it all and go for a power-up test using a timing lite and timing marks. Which leads me to my next question for the forum....

Given the weather around here this time of year, I'd prefer to bring the engine into the shop to install and test and time it in running mode. The controls and all the related wiring are nicely plumbed into the boat and I'd rather not have to de-install it all. I'm thinking just to wire up an ignition switch and separate starter starter to the pins where the wiring harness plugs in. Need to go over the diagram to figure out which is which. Will use the manual choke and throttle it by hand.

Any considerations I am not thinking of?

Peter,

I have been thinking about putting together a make-shift key switch.


I have a motor on a stand and do not want to have to hook it up to the boat to do some work on it in the warmer garage. I have a spare wiring harness / plug that goes to the motor. I can hook up the battery to the harness. I thought I would need a toggle switch (power on/off), a two push buttons. One for the starter and one for the choke. I was going to mount those three on a small board to keep the all easy to operate. I will have to look up the wire colors to figure out what color wire goes to what switch/buttons. Also I need to know size of switch/buttons so they can handle the voltage. It should not need too big.

Will that work? If you get it done before me, please post so I can duplicate.

I suspect the switches just need to be 12V (i.e. any automotive/pep boys switch) for the ignition off/on switch and even the starter switch. The start switch triggers the solenoid for the starter so only 12 volts runs through it. I think we only need 16 gauge twisted copper wire (pep boys or any hardware store) to wire it up, with the exception of the starter cables, which would need to be the heavy cables.

Please anyone correct where I am going astray...

Peter,

I just looked at my wiring diagram. Looks like D-E is OFF. A-F is RUN. A-F-B is START

So I am not sure that a simple toggle switch will work. It may be more complicated than I presented.

Joe

Well, for my purposes I will be testing a custom ignition that will only have one side of the stock twin ignition lit up. So my set up will be different than if I were testing it with a stock ignition.

That said, Doc makes a great point on another thread, we must proceed with caution and get lots of feed back cause it only takes 'turning it on' to cook the motor-side wiring harness.

And with THAT said, hopefully in the next few days I'll post a diagram for feedback.

In a SHOCKING development,

I installed the Pertronix set up on the motor. In order to confirm it was firing I clamped the plug board from the bench top test bed to the motor and put a good ground on it. Spun the motor and the plus all fired.

I then set up the timing and truth be told I am still uncertain about it. I was tired and I thought it made sense but knew it was too late to try it out.

A few days later I installed the plugs, hooked up the battery and gas and she fired up! Using the fast idle lever I was able to rev it up and down and it didn't hesitate or stumble at all. Idled nice and Smooth.

But after a five minutes of this happiness it started to miss and stumble so I shut it off and rolled it into the garage (it was time for dinner and the rain was coming). Pondering it that night I suspected that the mag ring spun out of position as I had not yet (purposely) permanently set it, and upon later inspection that was indeed the case. I reset it and will re-install the distrib and run some more tests.

More as it unfolds....

I don't get it.....

Via the bench top tests I know that all six spark plugs are firing, which to me means I have the magnet ring, rotor, and pick up set right. On the flywheel I put two white dots where #3 is at .222 BTDC and one dot where #3 is at TDC (the '63 1000 is timed off of #3 in a stock set up). I used the seam in the block behind the flywheel as the reference point. That is, with the motor set at .222 BTDC I made a mark on the flywheel that lines up with that seam. (see pic)

With the engine set with #3 is at .222 BTDC I took the following steps;
--Set the motor into forward gear and detached the cables so I can rotate the distributor.
--Installed the distributor body, cap off
--Rotated the distributor counter clockwise against the spark advance stop
--Rotated the rotor counter clockwise against the distributor drive
--Adjusted the distributor set up such that the mag ring, #3 pick up on the cap, and the rotor tab are aligned correctly to fire #3 at .222 BTDC
-- Installed the distributor cap
-- Attached my timing light with the induction pick up cable on the coil wire (not a plug wire)

Started the motor. Runs pretty smooth, sounds good.

Hit the flywheel with the timing light. Here's where I get confused. I expected at idle the .222 BTDC mark to be at the seam on the block. Then it occurred to me, no that's not right. The .222 BDTC mark is for wide open throttle, not idle. So with the engine idling this .222 BTDC mark should be to the LEFT of the seam in the block. But it was far to the right. I advanced the distributor via the fast idle lever on the controls, and the timing marks moved to the right (i.e. in counter clockwise) as I expected.

So why, at idle, are the .222 BTDC and TDC marks so far to the right. Shouldn't the timing mark for TDC been close to the seam on the block? Or at a minimum the .222 BTDC mark be to the left of seam.

"-- Attached my timing light with the induction pick up cable on the coil wire (not a plug wire)"

Wait a moment - If you want to check the firing timing on Number 3, the inductive P/U must only be on number 3 wire. If it is on the coil wire, it will flash 6 times per revolution and will totally screw you up. Put the clamp on No. 3 wire & try it again.

Yup Bruce I beleive you are correct. Litterlay at 1:00 am this morning it hit me, that on the coil wire the light will trigger as you said. So I will try again and let folks know.

And there is happiness

With the timing light hooked up correctly at idle the .222 BTDC mark was to the left of the reference point on the block, and TDC was to the right. Advanced the Distrib all the way and the .222 BTC was juuust to the right of the reference point.

So I will glue the mag ring in place, and take it down to the river for the final set up (adjusting the carbs, idle, the throttle pick up, and the max advance via trial runs.)