TOPIC: Why we discourage judging of Thompson boats

The Fall 2013 issue of the "RUDDER " magazine, published by the Antique & Classic Boat Society, has two article on Thompson et.al. boats. 6 pages of illustrated text. Very nice looking and informative.

One article relates to judging and why the Thompson Dockside and the Thompson Antique & Classic Boat Rally discourages judging of Thompson et.al. boats.

Good articles and worth reading.

www.acbs.org

Andreas Jordahl Rhude
President
Thompson Antique & Classic Boat Rally, Inc.
a non-profit corporation

Did I miss something? Why would Thompson boats not be judged? They are good classic boats IMHO.

Looks like just a post to promote Thompson boats. To me, they are OK boats, nothing really special. I don't know why one would care if they were judged or not. They were not some super quality boat when new, but if you restored one really well...

Read the article in "The Rudder" magazine and you will learn why we feel judging is not a good thing.

Andreas

Andreas,
Is that the same article that was printed on the ThompsonDockside site? I'm not a member of that club and don't get the magazine. The link doesn't let me get to it either. As a Thompson owner, I'd be interested in reading it.

Verne

You must be a member of ACBS to get the "Rudder" magazine. ACBS does not reprint the magazine on-line, it's only on paper.

Yes, it's the same article that is or was at www.thompsondockside.com with some editorial corrections.

Andreas

Being a Thompson owner, I agree with Andreas on his reasons for not judging. Every Thompson owner has different ideas and opinions on what they want their boat to be. Since every boat was different when it left the factory, it would be impossible to say what is correct.
Also, as he stated, what is correct when it comes to the outboard that you choose to run. My boat is a '59 and it had a '63 motor on it when I bought it and that motor was on it when I first saw it in 1970. It would be impossible to find out what was originally on it. I have just recently upgraded to a '77 motor because of reliability issues and I don't regret it.
After 55 years a lot of things have been changed on my boat. Some for safety reasons, some just for styling and comfort. I don't regret any of them. My boat is used weekly during the summer and I have yet to take it on the water and not get people commenting on how nice it looks. To me, that is my judging.
Bill

above link incorrect, here's the right one: www.thompsondockside.com/

I agree with you All Dunn 11 on the showing of the boat. For some people, it is really important to them and that is fine with me. Every time I showed my latest restoration, it can be a car, a motorcycle or the boat, the club having the event, always has the winner. It is just natural and really a shame, if not properly earned. The people who are at the show to vote, are the majority of the local clubs members and they probably really like the guy who is showing the boat, so if you are not from there, you loose. I can say, the Corvette people are to the blue prints, tough. Motorcycle people not as tough. The boat people seem to be even looser. How many times have you really seen a boat that is identical to other boats of the same brand and year. The boats were made in shops and the boats that got to market sold and that is important! On my own boat, a '58 Wolverine/Elgin, I have not seen an identical windshield to mine. Yet, I know talking to the original owner it is the original one. Enjoy the boat! That is one fine Thompson. Tell me about the motor on it.

In the picture that is the '63 850 merc that was on it when I bought it 6 years ago. I ran that motor until late this summer until I started having lower unit problems when it didn't want to go into reverse. I ran into a good deal on a '77 1150 merc and put that on it. Boy, what a difference!! Back in the mid 60's, when the neighbor still owned it, we pulled 6 skiers with that old 850! It is still a good motor but I was ready to upgrade. It is still on the stand in the corner of the garage until I decide what to do with it.
In the picture, I am the hot dog with the rope handle between my knees. I can still hear my sister screaming at me because we worked our butts off to get up!!!
Bill

great picture!

Andreas

Hi Andreas,
Randy here.. I feel your pain and agree that outboards where often rigged at the dealer resulting in many variations.
I think we must be all careful not to make this a hot topic of disagreement, the fact is to some, judging matters and to others it doesn't, no right no wrong, we are all brothers (sisters).
So it might be instructional to work on what the rules of engagement should be for judging or even restoring if you want as close to "original" as possible. I think it would help the ACBS. Certainly workmanship is fair game. There already exists a deduct system depending on how far off the motor and boat year are so that seems reasonable. Anything more than three years apart and points start coming off. For instance on the 850 shown the faceplate is the wrong year, should it matter when judging..yes...should it take away from the love of the boat...no.
It is still wicked cool and a great photo..I love it.
I have not experiened "old holes" from previous instalations of motors or controls as a deduct but this may vary. It would be fair to judge a particular boat "better" for not having old holes but maybe not be a point deduct.
I think hardware could be looked at as "period correct" like no black plastic on the stern mast for instance, or stainless cleats/chocks etc. again depending on year. Certainly a new IVA chrome spot light is more period correct than a new white plastic one. Modern gauges would be a deduct, but the absence of gauges would not be if suitable period correct ones can't be found, a big gaping hole in the dash would be hard not to deduct for. So it might spur the search for one or possibly selecting a new one that looks vintage. Adding modern day fish finders radios/speakers etc. could be installed for easy removal for judgement day, rather than cutting a big hole in an otherwise untouched dash. One could think about how to install without cutting. A modern steering wheel would get dinged where a vintage wheel on a new cable system maybe not, so cosmeticlly period correct is OK in such situations where steering is a saftey issue and old push/pull cables are not available. I would say the same for gas tanks, another saftey issue, maybe not a points deduct for plastic but a boat with restored period correct tanks would be "better".
Fabrics and colors should be again in the spirit of the times when built, diamond tuffted folding swivel chairs from Cabellas's or Overton's certainly should get a deduct.
A well done seat cusion in complemantary color to the boat maybe not. In this instance it might be helpful when doing a restoration to defer to a catalog picture or club photos and copy a known pattern to exist as a default. That is where a knowlege base is very helpful in preserving what they were like.
Indeed variation has to be accomodated where at the same time for those interested in judged shows fostering the notion of keeping it as it was in the day. Personally Judging motivates me to do as good a job as possible on my restorations but as a reality I don't care about winning but I do care about correctness just because it drives me to find out a lot more about what I'm working on....but that's me I don't feel it's the only way.
There is a need to assist the ACBS in this area when it comes to our beloved outboards, I'm thinking maybe we can help, there is an incredible knowlege base that the ACBS could capture. It is a long standing boating organization that could embrace glass and outboards in the way they have wood inboards with some help. These boats are probably more significant in contributing to the spread of boating than the early woodies.
Randy

OK Al, Now I want to see you hot doggin' come summer with the newer Merc
I'll print it off to show my nephew.
Cal

Cal,
It has been several years since I have been on skis. I don't think my knees could handle much of that anymore. After 38 years of jumping out of a truck to deliver liquor they just aren't what they used to be. I will get some pictures of the boat this summer, but I can't guarantee me skiing!
Bill

63g3,
You reply makes the most sense to me. Period correct I believe is the only way to go giving all the different hardware manufacturers, steering manufacturers, motor manufactures, and all the hull splashing that went on
at the time, for those folks that feel the need be to be judged and want a trophy.
The ACBS is a great organization. And it has gotten greater in the fact that they recognize fiberglassics as vintage boats also.
I also see how the ACBS ridged judging rules has had to alter judging boats as "restorations" , "reproductions" and barn find absolute originals to take the bickering out of classic boating. I also understand "numbers matching" is the ultimate find, but some of the judging has gotten rediculous ! This is why Andreas and crew have the right idea...
I don't ever plan on having a boat judged. I just plan on showing it for what it's worth, and the coolness of the time it was made. A clean up-kept
user boat is an A+ to me. But that's only my personal opinion.
I guess I'm not not a glory hound kind of guy ? But also know some folks are, and I'll never knock them for being so.

well said , chuck. frog

Chuck, ditto on the Frog. When I "rebuilt" my Century Sabre there were issues with members of the ACBS, I quit the group. These boats were built with the intention of being sold, used and enjoyed, not to last 60 years for a trophy presentation. If you want to be judged fine, enter the fray but for me I'll be out on the water enjoying the thumbs up and sunshine while someone else is polishing the chrome and brass.

I tend to agree with Andreas' philosophy regarding judging (or non-judging) of these boats. The only possible venue that would work to judge these types of boats would be one based on "period correctness" of equipment. Unless you absolutely know the complete history of a boat, there is no way to determine if the equipment is original or not. Basic features of a model could be judged for originality, such as upholstery, windshield style, hull color, but the motor, controls, instruments and hardware were up to the dealer or buyer to choose, and they could be anything - including components that were made years before the boat was built.
Case in point: I have a 1960 Thompson that was sold new with a '58 Evinrude motor and controls. Perhaps the dealer offered the buyer a good deal on the 2 year old motor? But how would judges view that?
Trying to judge these boats based on originality just wouldn't work.

Verne